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BusyBeaver(6) Is Quite Large

(scottaaronson.blog)
271 points bdr | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0.207s | source
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Scarblac ◴[] No.44406478[source]
It boggles my mind that a number (an uncomputable number, granted) like BB(748) can be "independent of ZFC". It feels like a category error or something.
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Xcelerate ◴[] No.44407165[source]
It boggles my mind that we ever thought a small amount of text that fits comfortably on a napkin (the axioms of ZFC) would ever be “good enough” to capture the arithmetic truths or approximate those aspects of physical reality that are primarily relevant to the endeavors of humanity. That the behavior of a six state Turing machine might be unpredictable via a few lines of text does not surprise me in the slightest.

As soon as Gödel published his first incompleteness theorem, I would have thought the entire field of mathematics would have gone full throttle on trying to find more axioms. Instead, over the almost century since then, Gödel’s work has been treated more as an odd fact largely confined to niche foundational studies rather than any sort of mainstream program (I’m aware of Feferman, Friedman, etc., but my point is there is significantly less research in this area compared to most other topics in mathematics).

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hyperpape ◴[] No.44407535[source]
This ignores the fact that it is not so easy to find natural interesting statements that are independent of ZFC.

Statements that are independent of ZFC are a dime a dozen when doing foundations of mathematics, but they're not so common in many other areas of math. Harvey Friedman has done interesting work on finding "natural" statements that are independent of ZFC, but there's dispute about how natural they are. https://mathoverflow.net/questions/1924/what-are-some-reason...

In fact, it turns out that a huge amount of mathematics does not even require set theory, it is just a habit for mathematicians to work in set theory. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_mathematics.

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Xcelerate ◴[] No.44407711[source]
Yeah, I’m quite familiar with Friedman’s work. I mentioned him and his Grand Conjecture in another comment.

> This ignores the fact that it is not so easy to find natural interesting statements that are independent of ZFC.

I’m not ignoring this fact—just observing that the sheer difficulty of the task seems to have encouraged mathematicians to pursue other areas of work beside foundational topics, which is a bit unfortunate in my opinion.

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1. hyperpape ◴[] No.44407907[source]
I agree most working mathematicians have limited interest in foundational topics. To me, that seems harmless enough.

> approximate those aspects of physical reality that are primarily relevant to the endeavors of humanity.

This is the comment that made me think that you were saying we needed more work on foundations for math as it is used in the sciences, and that doesn't match my understanding. Did I read it differently than you meant it?