Starcloud can’t put a data centre in space at $8.2M in one Starship

Why do they want to put a data center in space in the first place?

Free cooling?

Doesn't make much sense to me. As the article points out the radiators need to me massive.

Access to solar energy?

Solar is more efficient in space, I'll give them that, but does that really outweigh the whole hassle to put the panels in space in the first place?

Physical isolation and security?

Against manipulation maybe, but not against denial of service. Willfully damaged satellite is something I expect to see in the news in the foreseeable future.

Low latency comms?

Latency is limited by distance and speed of light. Everyone with a satellite internet connections knows that low latency is not a particular strength of it.

Marketing and PR?

That, probably.

EDIT:

Thought of another one:

Environmental impact?

No land use, no thermal stress for rivers on one hand but the huge overhead of a space launch on the other.

Ability to raise money from gullible investors.

Speed of light is actually quite an advantage, in theory at least. Speed of light in optical fiber is quite a bit slower (takes 50% longer) than in vacuum.

Not every datacenter use case is latency sensitive. Backup storage or GPU compute, for example.

Not really. Fiber is more 2/3 of free space propagation and that puts the break-even point of direct fiber connection vs LEO up- and downlink at a geodesic distance of about 12000 km. So, for most data centers you want to reach a fiber is the better option.

My initial thought was: ambiguous regulatory environment.

Not being physically located the US, the EU, or any other sovereign territory, they could plausably claim exemption from pretty much any national regulations.

But then why bother with the added expense of launching into space? It's definitely not for environmental reasons.

A bit like international waters. I wonder when we'll see the first space pirates.

This might be true, but unrealistic.

If you run amiss of US (or EU) regulators, they will never say, "well, it's in space, out of our jurisdiction!".

They will make your life hell on Earth.

I've talked to the founder of Starcloud about this, there is just going to be a lot of data generative stuff in space in the future, and further and further out into space. He thinks now is the right time to learn how to compute up there because people will want to process, and maybe orchestrate processing between many devices, in space. He's fully aware of all of the objections in this hn comments section, he just doesn't believe they are insurmountable and he believes interoperable compute hubs in space will be required over the next 20/30 years. He's in his mid 20s, so it seems like a reasonable mission to be on to me.

Space is terrible for that. There's only a handful of countries with launch vehicles and/or launch sites. You obviously need to be in their good graces for the launch to be approved.

If you want permissive regulatory environment, just spend the money buying a Mercedes for some politician in a corrupt country, you'll get a lot further...

> Why do they want to put a data center in space in the first place?

At https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44397026 I speculate that in particular militaries might be interested.

On the environmental front, when it comes to the of life the entire data center is incinerated in the Earth's upper atmosphere

Seems far more likely that the "data generative stuff" will get smaller and cheaper to run (like cell phones with on-device models) much faster than "run a giant supercomputer in orbit" will become easy.

> A bit like international waters.

Which is a good analogy; international waters are far from lawless.

You're still subject to the law of your flag state, just as if you were on their territory. In addition to that, you're subject to everyone's jurisdiction if you commit certain crimes - including piracy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_jurisdiction

Quick, we need a new Cryptonomicon, in space!

My headlights aren't good enough so I'm unsure but generally that maps. To me the interoperability part is what is interesting, your data and my data in real time being consumed by some understanding agent doing automated research? I could imagine putting something like a Stoffel MPC layer in there, then nations states can more easily work together? I presume space data/research will be highly competitive, even friendly nations may want to combine data without knowing the underneath. We're so far out here that it's kinda silly, but I don't think we're out to lunch? Have a great weekend Chris! :)

One of the answers in OP is

> A lot of waste heat is generated running TDCs, which contributes to climate change—so migrating to space would alleviate the toll on Earth’s thermal budget. This seems like a compelling environmental argument. TDCs already consume about 1-1.5% of global electricity and it’s safe to assume that this will only grow in the pursuit of AGI.

The comparison here is between solar powered TDCs in Space vs TDCs on Earth.

- A TDC in space contributes to global warming due to mining+manufacturing emissions and spaceflight emissions.

- A comparable TDC on Earth would be solar+battery run. You will likely need a larger solar panel array than in space. Note a solar panel in operation does not really contribute to global warming. So the question is whether the additional Earth solar panel+battery manufacturing emissions are greater than launching the smaller array + TDC into space.

I would guess launching into space has much higher emissions.

> there is just going to be a lot of data generative stuff in space in the future

Why?

Because near all analysts have it on somewhere between a 5% and 7% CAGR.

There are certainly nation states that are looking for ways to 1) prevent their satellites colliding with one another (https://eprint.iacr.org/2013/850.pdf) and 2) being able to do forms of computation that might be risky to do on earth for national security reasons.

> forms of computation that might be risky to do on earth for national security reasons

Such as...?

That didn't answer the question but just repeat the original claim differently. Where are they getting those numbers?

The Forrester report I'm using to invest in this stuff, I've read some Gartner on it also.

Apparently the only way to make renewable energy cool is to put it in space

Earth is the closest spot for most of space. It makes most sense for satellites to send data back to Earth. They would have to find a use where with lots of compute but latency really matters.

For farther out, computer on ships, stations, or bases makes sense, but that is different than free floating satellites. They already have power, cooling, and maintenance.

It is like saying there should be compute in the air for all the airplanes flying around.

I think you’re a little too dismissive of the 24/7 always available solar power, and the free cooling.

There’s no free cooling in space.

In space there’s no ambient environment to speak of, so you’re limited to radiative cooling, which is massively inferior to refrigeration.

There’s also no 24/7 solar in low Earth orbit, which is where you want to be for latency and serviceable.

Low Earth orbits are in the dark about 49% of time, but suffer no seasonal variability. Low Earth orbit is also very hot, and regular solar panels become less efficient the hotter they get.

The only sensible way to count pollution from solar+battery power manufacturing & disposal is do it on a per kWh basis.

It’s actually very hot in low Earth orbit.

The size of solar panels and radiators needed for an actual data center would be crazy in LEO. LEO still touches the atmosphere. ISS needs to be pushed higher regularly because of atmospheric drag.

I don't see it.

The US government does questionable things to people in places like Guantanamo Bay because the constitution gives those people rights if they set foot on US soil. Data doesn't have rights, and governments have the capability to waive their own laws for things like national security.

Corporations operating in space are bound to the laws of the country the spacecraft belongs to, so there's no difference between a data harbor in Whogivesastan vs. a data harbor on a spacecraft operated by Whogivesastan.

That’s actually something I never considered. In a true vacuum since there are no particles, temperature is undefined.

With the added bonus of there being no ozone layer to absorb UV.