Apple announces App Store changes in the EU

"The European Commission is requiring Apple to make a series of additional changes to the App Store. We disagree with this outcome and plan to appeal."

Reading that made me very happy. It clearly shows that EU bureaucrats - despite their bad reputation - still have teeth when it comes to reigning in overly greedy US companies. Back in '98, the EU versions of Windows were very desirable, as they were free of bloatware. Soon, history might repeat with US consumers pretending to be in the EU to free their hardware.

> Soon, history might repeat with US consumers pretending to be in the EU to free their hardware

Very unlikely. Phones have to identify the country they are operating in for wireless emission regulations, whether it be from SIM cards, GPS, sale region, account region, etc. They have been doing this for a very long time.

I guess it is a battle between EU bureaucrats vs American Daddies :)

// I know it is tongue in cheek, but that is what this may end up being, especially if Apple is able to move non-trivial amounts of manufacturing to US.

What is non-trivial? IMO if China, India and USA become 3 tiers with each tier being half of the previous tier, that would somehow be justifiable as "hey we are almost there, we can do it any time, but let's have the hatchet ready but keep the cheap devices for now"

I will take to the streets and start rioting if necessary, should EU leadership bend to US pressure on this.

It is our sovereign right to make laws that determine the rules of our society. Americans can either abide by them or get out of our market.

Wrong.

Apple long standing policy is to look at the country of billing address. As an American living in Europe this has been super to keep watching the Apple TV+ content.

Us Americans have approximately zero to do with your rules or society. The idea of thinking Apple (or Microsoft, or Google) represents "Americans" is absurd. We don't vote for them to exist, we have no mechanism to stop their existence or oppose them in any way. We're as happy about EU forcing them to change as anyone else - our own attempts all failed. Jail break providers(for instance) were persecuted with legal process, gag orders, and seizure of their assets. Repairing iPhones as a side business? They put a stop to us doing that also.

I'm all in agreement with your emotional sentiment, but please understand "Americans" do /not/ like the same things you do not like. Our country just takes away our ability to do anything about it. Land of the free and whatnot...

edit: typo

Let me clarify: I don't mean individual American persons. I mean the American oligarchy and the political machine it controls.

Individual Americans are often great people - some of which I am proud to call my friends.

> Americans can either abide by them or get out of our market.

I think GP was talking about Americans running companies.

As an independent developer, I wish the EU would reverse their decision to make me either doxx myself or not have paid apps in the EU App Store. Thankfully, right now my only app is free so I can get away with saying that I'm not a trader.

I'll probably just have to bite the bullet and form an LLC with a rented address and phone number once I get ready to release a paid app, which unfortunately just increases my costs even more for what is most likely to remain just a small side hustle.

I still don't see a good reason why independent developers like me should have to publish their personal address and phone number on the App Store. I'm not willing to put my family in danger like that.

Can you elaborate? If you sell the app via a limited company do you have to doxx yourself personally?

> I still don't see a good reason why independent developers like me should have to publish their personal address and phone number on the App Store [for paid apps].

Because if someone purchases an app and there's a dispute with the product, they need a business address and/or phone number to contact and resolve the problem. It seems like a very good reason to me.

Probably fine to use a random BS address, until your app takes off enough to justify the LLC? Do they actually mail you anything?

>I'll probably just have to bite the bullet and form an LLC with a rented address and phone number once I get ready to release a paid app, which unfortunately just increases my costs even more for what is most likely to remain just a small side hustle.

This is actually still not a valid solution. You'll have to provide an address where you can be physically reached, even if you publish your app as an LLC (at least under German law). A "rented" address won't fulfill that criteria. If you run your LLC out of your personal home, you'll need to publish your personal address (again, under German law, it may be different in other EU countries).

This does make sense in principle, as it allows your customers to actually track you down in case they feel the need to sue you.

You might get away with listing the address of a co-working space, if you are actually physically present at that address during normal business hours.

You might also get away with listing your legal name and the address of your lawyer. But your lawyer would need to agree with this and you'd have to have an arrangement in place that they will represent you in any and all future cases, which might be difficult. This doesn't seem to be a settled question in german jurisprudence.

Also, you could just chance it. Not listing an address will simply result in potential exposure to a cease and desist letter, which (under German law) only results in limited financial liability. I am not a lawyer, so please get a professional to check, but if you are really serious about not exposing your personal address, it might be simpler and cheaper to run the low risk of a cease and desist instead of making a big fuss about an alternative address.

At least under German law, if you offer services or products for purchase, you need to provide an address where you can be physically reached. For self-employed entrepreneurs the only address that will fulfill that criterium is your private domicile.

What Apple TV+ content aren’t we getting in the EU?

The point is to have an avenue for recourse/accountability when the developer is not behaving.

German law is basically irrelevant unless you're in Germany. All that matters is what Apple makes App Store developers do, and Apple doesn't give a crap as long as you have some address and some phone number that Apple can verify.

Apple doesn't even police the "trader" self-declaration. I've seen several (scam) developers in the App Store who are clearly traders but have declared that they're not traders in the EU. Apple's compliance here is mostly perfunctory.

Where are you located? You can likely use Google Voice and a post office box rather than your home info.

The company can be reached at a rented address. That's the whole point of them. There is an agent at the address that can receive things like legal correspondence.

It appears Germany appears has similar services where you can get a virtual business addresses at business centers.

What's the recourse?

You've got a European consumer, a $5 App Store app, and some contact info in the United States, or some other country. What exactly do you think is going to happen in that situation?

The accountability for App Store developers is via Apple, not via some address and phone number. App Store consumers request a refund through Apple, or if there's some other problem with the developer, the consumers report it to Apple, who has the developer's contact info regardless of whether the developer is a trader in the EU.

The recourse is sometimes a lawsuit or criminal charges.

If your app say, defrauds someone and steals money from their bank account, then you as the developer are liable.

A refund of the app isn't going to cover it.

The lawyer could get a personal address from Apple if necessary in that scenario without publicly listing the individual developer’s home address.

> The recourse is sometimes a lawsuit or criminal charges.

Do you think a European consumer is going to successfully sue or prosecute someone on the other side of the globe from them?

> If your app say, defrauds someone and steals money from their bank account, then you as the developer are liable.

If an App Store app is defrauding consumers and stealing money from their bank accounts, then presumably Apple would get involved directly, like I already said. Going through Apple is the recourse and always has been.

Indeed you'd probably have better luck suing Apple itself rather than trying to sue some rando remote developer.

As someone in the EU I’m very unhappy that I have to pretend being in the US to actually be able to access all macOS/iOS can do. I know I’ll be downvoted to oblivion but I loathe these laws.

Except you can't do it at any time. America tried this logic with the motor vehicle (and offshored it), then the semiconductor (and offshored it), and now we're seeing it for pretty much every other manufactured commodity America is known for. What do we make, anymore?

There's a simple explanation for why this happened: America really believes in free market competition. Even when we're getting reamed by global competitors in cost and quality, someone always presupposes that this manufacturing capacity can come back. But that's not how it works; products are worth what people will pay for them, and if the trade value goes down then the gross domestic product will follow.

It's a blatant vulnerability of democratic capitalism. I'd like for you to be right, but I live in America. I don't know if anything on my desk was made in America; I don't even know if my desk itself was made domestically anymore. America isn't a rung on the manufacturing ladder, you could remove us entirely and only stand to increase your margins.

Under German law you need a “ladungsfähige” address, which a rented address is explicitly not. You need to be physically present at that address as a person.