The Hollow Men of Hims

Hims is actually very expensive. I get the same Semaglutide for far cheaper either via my hormone dr. (provides a small, reliable dose of testosterone (trt) every month and legit access to hard to get compounds via a compounding pharmacy. No hoop jumping, they have a menu, I order from it. In real life I take 2 - 3x the testosterone dose when I am on but when I am coasting its easy no stress way to get what I want delivered monthly. When I am not using what they provide I just set it aside for the apocalypse :) )

GLP-1s are a miracle drug, people want it so will do what they must to get it. Unfortunately for many of them they cannot afford the $1,000 a month price tag that comes with legitimacy. On top of that, regular doctors make you jump through hoops to get it, having to see the exercise and diet department of whatever hospital group they belong too. this adds hundreds / thousands to the cost.

Let people have what they want. Hims parasitized the process but I don't blame them for it. They gave the people what they wanted and made a profit at the same time.

Adults should be empowered to make their own health care decisions but unfortunately so many of those decisions are made either by insurance companies or the attractive sales reps that frequent the doctor offices. GLP-1's, testosterone, peptides, whatever, remove the gate keepers and allow the free market to compete. The fact that you can go to jail for ordering a 10ml bottle of test cyp over the internet is madness. I rarely go to the doctor now, except for things that are clearly beyond my limits, xrays, colonoscopy etc. For everything else there is the internet and chatGPT. GLP-1s, peptides, steroids, even anti biotics, almost everything you want can be found if you look. The way it should be. I even order my own labs and have chatGPT interpret them for me.

I'm in the best shape of my life at 46 and haven't been to a non hormone doctor except for specialists in several years. Last time I went to the doctor I told them I wanted GLP-1s and they said no, I would have to go and see their diet department. I told them if they did not prescribe them I would just get them online but I would prefer to use them under the supervision of a dr. They just shrugged.

I'm on cycle currently but when I am done and coasting again I am going to hop on metformin to take a crack at stabilizing my liver levels caused by fatty liver before I took control of my own health. Because... why not? Think a doctor would prescribe this?

Let people be the decision makers of their own health. I'm not knocking doctors, they are often highly intelligent people doing good work but their power as gatekeepers does not come with neutrality and they are often beholden to their own bottom line as opposed to the patients well being.

There’s a very vocal, puritanical anti-semaglutide crowd that thinks using the drug is a way of subverting the moral order. “You have poor willpower, you’re SUPPOSED to be fat as a punishment!”

They don’t care that it helps people stick to their healthy diets and get better. They need these people to bear the stigma of the gluttony.

These people should be firmly ignored. I am very open with my drug use. If anyone objects I have labs that I will happily compare to anyone's and I am in better shape than 95% of 20 year olds. There should be no stigma associated with being the master and commander of your own body and health choices.

Counterexample: what about antibiotics? There are negative externalities to their inappropriate use (yes, there are plenty of stories about the infections that were missed, but that has a lot of selection bias). There are countries that allow their use over the counter. Is that a good thing?

Yes. You can order a significant variety of antibiotics over the counter / web in the US. I have 2 Z-Paks, a bottle of Amoxicillin and a bottle of Doxycycline sitting in my medical drawer. You can order them legally via US based online pharmacies. If you are an adult you should have the freedom to treat yourself. Freedom does not absolve you of responsibility though. If I mess myself up I have no one to blame but myself.

I can't agree with you there, because if you're treating with the wrong dose or for the wrong length of time, you run the risk of making that infection resistant. For communicable illnesses, that can be a risk for others. But I appreciate your honesty.

I should also add that those pharmacies, if they are based on the United States, invariably have a licensed provider in there signing off (they would be illegal otherwise).

I don't think either of us is wrong and I appreciate your viewpoint. Often ones opinion on these sorts of things depends on where on the sliding scale you stand with regard to the individuals duty to society and vice versa. What I always find interesting in these conversations is that often the position on the the scale differs by topic but such is human nature, we all have our personal pet areas of importance. I am sure there are topics where you and I would switch sides as to individual vs personal responsibility. Its what keeps life interesting :)

Regarding the licensed provider, you are absolutely correct, I always get an email signed by whatever doctor works with the site. Its a rubber stamp but its does provide legality.

I don't know about op but I've heard the veterinarian versions of antibiotics are widely available. Who knows on the quality control

I believe many obtained ivermectin through similar channels despite it being a prescription drug

OP here, i only order from human sites :)

Ivermectin is available there as well. Never tried it though. Actually thinking of taking a mild course though. Why not?

In the United States, at least, veterinary preparations are broadly manufactured to the same standard (some veterinary drugs are relabeled stock originally manufactured for human use, even). Dosing and concentrations may differ, however.

But antibiotics in the US are still over prescribed by doctors. There really are few cases for them for the mostly healthy adult; and they wreak havoc on your microbiome for what we're finding out is years. I know many people who will get antibiotics prescribed when they have a common cold (mostly a virus).

They're also under prescribed for things like appendicitis.

This is not a charitable take of the critics.

If you go on a fad diet, lose weight, then gain it back when you stop, well, you haven't really lost anything other than time.

If you go on semaglutide, lose weight, then gain it all back when you stop, you're out thousands of dollars, I'm out money when my insurance premium goes up to support the new expensive drugs, and you might have permanent health complications (rare though they might be).

I haven't heard any success stories of people keeping the weight off after they stop taking it, though I've heard plenty of people gaining everything back, and being miserable from the side effects while they were on it.

If semaglutide worked as a stopgap to help you get to the point where you could manage your weight on your own, I think it would be hard to argue with it. So far, though, I've had people tell me that it should be treated as just another vitamin supplement that you'll be on for life, albeit one that costs $12k a year or whatever the case may be.

> I'm out money when my insurance premium goes up to support the new expensive drugs

It's a good thing then that insurance won't pay for it and these services don't even bill insurance.

It's also not $12k a year for the generic, it's around $1200 a year. The drug isn't that expensive to make, the brand is just jacking up the price.

Most obese people are going to be on lifetime drugs anyway, in the form of metformin, statins, insulin, you name it.

The "ooo scary medicine!" thing doesn't really work for people who are already sick and suffering. That ship has sailed.

Could you share some of those sites? I have chronic sinus infections and I'm so tired of having to go to the doctor to get the same antibiotic rx I've gotten 20 times before.

> and you might have permanent health complications (rare though they might be).

Does obesity have permanent health complications and cost you extra in premiums?

I see no way to DM on this site, so public it is.

No association with it but have used it multiple times.

https://allfamilypharmacy.com/

Mods if this is not ok, my apologies

A year after quitting semaglutide, 20% of people maintained their achieved weight. But, some 44% regained weight. Of that 44%, most (59% of them) still had improved weight: their weights had not fully rebounded to their pre-semaglutide level! Possibly even more importantly, the remaining 36% continued losing weight, either mildly (47%) or majorly (53%)

https://archive.md/Wsuoz

There are other options for addressing obesity than "semaglutide or nothing".

That's certainly a significantly better rate of success than what I'd heard from the people I know who took it! Perhaps there's just some weird selection bias in my network.

Bad news spreads better than good news.

Do you hear more from people that made money in crypto or that lost money?

Why are you taking testosterone?

Yeah, but they don't work for most people.

For example, I could say, just start running/cycling/swimming if you want to lose weight. It's really easy! If you slowly work up to working out 5 hours a week, and keep at it, your obesity will probably disappear.

However, most people won't be able to do that, because it's boring, takes a lot of time, and they will stop sooner or later. There are some success stories of people who stuck with it and lost 50kg, but these stories are so rare that they are noteworthy.

Taking daily meds on the other hand is something that most people manage to do just fine.

Started out as Testosterone Replacement Therapy (TRT). I had low overall testosterone due to age (low 300's). Mid 40's. Not necessarily low for my age but low overall. Who wants the testosterone levels of an old man? Before I got on I was lethargic, unfocused and had no real drive. My evenings would consist of just sitting on the couch. I had been like that for years. I was middle aged. I didn't want to be like that so I saw a hormone doctor and got on. Best decision I have ever made. I am in the best shape of my life and the only time I sit on a couch is if I am watching something with my family. I have get up and go in spades now.

Still on it, I occasionally take a full steroid cycle once a year though to accomplish certain physical goals.

Generally run a single 14 week cycle each year where I essentially triple the amount of testosterone I take. I may add another substance for the 14 weeks as well. Then I return to the regular testosterone replacement therapy dose.

I feel and look 20+ years younger. I get blood work done 3x a year and additional 2x while on a cycle to ensure I am good.

My wife has also gotten on TRT, testosterone is required for women as well, just at much lower doses. Her levels were very close to zero, even her OBGYN was surprised. She has seen good results as well. Not the full new lease on life I have had as Testosterone is not as critical for women but an increased sex drive and more energy. She is very closely monitored by her doctor as too much will have negatives for women.

I'm also on GLP-1 medication (Semaglutide), I got on in January and have lost 30lbs. Started at 240lbs and am now 210lbs. I have visible abs again and can bench 405lbs. These are the only medications I am on. Blood pressure is perfect, cholesterol is perfect, etc. Only negative I have is fatty liver which I was diagnosed with in my mid 20's. I'm going to self prescribe Metformin in a couple months (I am currently on cycle) to see if I can resolve that. If I can fix that then I will essentially be healthier that I have ever been in my life.

Best part is most GLP-s are not even daily, just once a week. Even easier.

Not according to the data about the change in proportion of obese people over time.

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