←back to thread

Microsoft Dependency Has Risks

(blog.miloslavhomer.cz)
153 points ArcHound | 3 comments | | HN request time: 0.657s | source
Show context
bob1029 ◴[] No.44382065[source]
The trick with Microsoft is to very carefully separate the good parts from the bad ones.

Labeling all of Microsoft as banned is really constraining your technology options. This is a gigantic organization with a very diverse set of people in it.

There aren't many things like .NET, MSSQL and Visual Studio out there. The debugger experience in VS is the holy grail if you have super nasty real world technology situations. There's a reason every AAA game engine depends on it in some way.

Azure and Windows are where things start to get bad with Microsoft.

replies(9): >>44382293 #>>44382372 #>>44382784 #>>44383037 #>>44383467 #>>44385139 #>>44385191 #>>44385341 #>>44385567 #
gerdesj ◴[] No.44382293[source]
"There aren't many things like .NET, MSSQL and Visual Studio out there. The debugger experience in VS is the holy grail if you have super nasty real world technology situations. There's a reason every AAA game engine depends on it in some way."

I'm not interested in AAA games engines writing and nor is most of the world. If that is it, then you have damned MS with (very) faint praise.

replies(4): >>44382385 #>>44382410 #>>44383208 #>>44384422 #
jiggawatts ◴[] No.44382410[source]
To paint a picture: I’ve worked with Microsoft technologies almost exclusively for decades but recently I was forced to pick up some Node.js, Docker, and Linux tooling for a specific app.

I can’t express in words what a giant step backwards it is from ASP.NET and Visual Studio. It’s like bashing things with open source rocks after working in a rocket manufacturing facility festooned with Kuka robots.

It’s just… end-to-end bad. Everything from critical dependencies developed by one Russian kid that’s now getting shot at in Ukraine so “maintenance is paused” to everything being wired up with shell scripts that have fifty variants, no standards, and none of them work. I’ve spent more time just getting the builds and deployments to work (to an acceptable standard) for Node.js than I’ve spent developing entire .NET applications! [1]

I have had similar experiences every few years for decades. I touched PHP once and recoiled in horror. I tried to get a stable build going for some Python ML packages and learnt that they have a half-life measured in days or hours after which they become impossible to reproduce. Etc…

Keep on assuming “Microsoft is all bad” if you like. You’re tying both hands behind your back and poking the keyboard with your nose.

PS: The dotnet SDK is open source and works fine on Linux, and the IntelliJ Rider IDE is generally very good and cross-platform. You're not forced to use Windows.

[1] The effort required to get a NestJS app to have barely acceptable performance is significantly greater than the effort to rewrite it in .NET 9 which will immediately be faster and have a far bigger bag of performance tuning tools and technologies available if needed.

replies(4): >>44382506 #>>44382561 #>>44384745 #>>44384883 #
1. th0ma5 ◴[] No.44382561[source]
I have a lot of respect for organizations that get a lot done with Microsoft technologies. I think your perspective could be thought of as the benefits of vertical integration and vendor lock in. These do help people get things done!

In the academic and open source world those things are fought against because you don't want to be at the mercy of the software developer in the context of certain rights.

I think for every negative you mention on either side a positive could be found on either side. And like many things on the net, you're not wrong but not necessarily talking about the same kinds of things.

My remaining complaints about Microsoft are the inflexibility of their solutions that command abstractions that just don't work for many organizations, and the general viral nature of software sales in general of which they are one of many with similar issues, however Oracle is the worst of course.

replies(1): >>44382713 #
2. jiggawatts ◴[] No.44382713[source]
Perfectly valid points. I've worked in academia, and their insistence on non-Microsoft technologies was helpful in certain fields where openness and long-term reproducibility is critical.

The downside is that this produces a microcosm of obscure technologies that can have... strange effects on industry. Some FAANG-like companies have a habit of hiring only recent graduates, so their entire staff is convinced that what they saw at their University is how everybody else does things.

It leads to Silicon Valley clique that has a fantastically distorted perspective of the rest of the world.

Some comments I've seen here on HN are downright hilarious to anyone from the "rest of the world", such as:

"Does anyone still use Windows Server!?" -- yes, at least 60% of all deployed servers world wide, and over 80% in many industries.

"Supports all popular directory servers such as OpenLDAP, ApacheDS, Kopano, ..." -- hello!? Active Directory! Have you heard of it!? It's something like 95% of all deployed LDAP deployments no matter how you count it! The other 5% is Oracle Directory and/or Novell eDirectory and then all of the rest put together is a rounding error.

replies(1): >>44386203 #
3. ArcHound ◴[] No.44386203[source]
I agree with this, I see the AD as critical. Do you please have a source for these numbers? Would love to include it in the article.