←back to thread

131 points timshell | 2 comments | | HN request time: 0.663s | source
Show context
imiric ◴[] No.44378450[source]
I applaud the effort. We need human-friendly CAPTCHAs, as much as they're generally disliked. They're the only solution to the growing spam and abuse problem on the web.

Proof-of-work CAPTCHAs work well for making bots expensive to run at scale, but they still rely on accurate bot detection. Avoiding both false positives and negatives is crucial, yet all existing approaches are not reliable enough.

One comment re:

> While AI agents can theoretically simulate these patterns, the effort likely outweighs other alternatives.

For now. Behavioral and cognitive signals seem to work against the current generation of bots, but will likely also be defeated as AI tools become cheaper and more accessible. It's only a matter of time until attackers can train a model on real human input, and inference to be cheap enough. Or just for the benefit of using a bot on a specific target to outweigh the costs.

So I think we will need a different detection mechanism. Maybe something from the real world, some type of ID, or even micropayments. I'm not sure, but it's clear that bot detection is at the opposite, and currently losing, side of the AI race.

replies(11): >>44378709 #>>44379146 #>>44379545 #>>44380175 #>>44380453 #>>44380659 #>>44380693 #>>44382515 #>>44384051 #>>44387254 #>>44389004 #
msgodel ◴[] No.44380693[source]
Everything on the web is a robot, every client is an agent for someone somewhere, some are just more automated.

Distinguishing en mass seems like a waste to me. Deal with the actual problems like resource abuse.

I think part of the issue is that a lot of people are lying to themselves that they "love the public" when in reality they really don't and want nothing to do with them. They lack the introspection to untangle that though and express themselves with different technical solutions.

replies(1): >>44380995 #
1. bobbiechen ◴[] No.44380995[source]
I do think the answer is two-pronged: roll out the red carpet for "good bots", add friction for "bad bots".

I work for Stytch and for us, that looks like:

1) make it easy to provide Connected Apps experiences, like OAuth-style consent screens "Do you want to grant MyAgent access to your Google Drive files?"

2) make it easy to detect all bots and shift them towards the happy path. For example, "Looks like you're scraping my website for AI training. If you want to see the content easily, just grab it all at /LLMs.txt instead."

As other comments mention, bot traffic is overwhelmingly malicious. Being able to cheaply distinguish bots and add friction makes your life as a defending team much easier.

replies(1): >>44381023 #
2. msgodel ◴[] No.44381023[source]
IMO if it looks like a bot and doesn't follow robots.txt you should just start feeding it noise. Ignoring robots.txt makes you a bad netizen.