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    145 points zdw | 19 comments | | HN request time: 1.036s | source | bottom
    1. fidotron ◴[] No.44376229[source]
    This stuff is why I am so cynical about modern software development management. Bill Atkinson wrote QuickDraw, a masterpiece of low level programming, but also had a very solid grasp about what it was for right down to the UX it was to enable, and as shown here how the UX evolved with user testing. These days the idea someone can span that range is seen as an impossibility.
    replies(7): >>44376423 #>>44376489 #>>44376760 #>>44376819 #>>44378121 #>>44379582 #>>44380889 #
    2. hyperhello ◴[] No.44376423[source]
    His software was so strong, it made the Macintosh what it was at the time, and indirectly shaped Windows and Linux’s UI to either imitate or showboat against it. The magnitude of his contributions to everything we think was normal now can’t even be stated. Apple drifts around more but the products still have a lot of his DNA in it.
    replies(1): >>44376500 #
    3. WillAdams ◴[] No.44376489[source]
    Yeah, it was an amazing team, and it's well-worth reviewing the stories at Folklore.org --- a good starting point is this retrospective:

    https://www.folklore.org/Joining_Apple_Computer.html

    He also wrote Hypercard, and I'd really like to see a modern successor which had the attributes:

    - stand-alone desktop app (and/or app for iPad on app store)

    - simple syntax (block diagramming like Scratch/Blockly seems a natural fit)

    - simple creation/arrangement of standard GUI elements (so that localization and accessibility still work)

    - being opensource (still feeling burned by having donated to Runtime Revolution/Livecode's opensource effort)

    (so basically a modern, opensource alternative to VisualBasic, and yes, I keep asking about this --- there are lots of programs in this space, but none are quite as easy/simple as to have gotten me past the hurdle of download/install/actually try making something/being successful at it, and I freely admit I'm a mediocre programmer with not enough time who is bogged down on his current project....)

    replies(1): >>44378714 #
    4. JKCalhoun ◴[] No.44376500[source]
    Agree. I hate to see Bill and team not get the credit they deserve. There is the idea (so famously put forward by Bill Gates) that Windows and Lisa (Mac) both ripped off Xerox — and I think that is misleading at best. As you can see in the Polaroids, Lisa took the lead from Xerox but then charted their own course. (Windows, it is said, then copied that.)
    replies(1): >>44379788 #
    5. bartread ◴[] No.44376760[source]
    > These days the idea someone can span that range is seen as an impossibility.

    I don't know about that, but in many/most organisations it's actively discouraged so you simply don't see it. That naturally occurs in large corporations where individuals have very narrow responsibilities, but I've also been surprised to find it happening even in the smallest of startups on occasion.

    replies(1): >>44381197 #
    6. snowwrestler ◴[] No.44376819[source]
    What? No it’s not, spanning a huge range like this is the prototypical skill set for a startup founder.

    It’s crazy to post a take like this on the website of Ycombinator, whose entire business model revolves around finding and elevating exactly those types of people.

    replies(1): >>44377118 #
    7. skeeter2020 ◴[] No.44377118[source]
    I don't get the connection between the skillset of a startup founder and someone like Bill. While Jobs showcases taking something from vision to product, your Wozniaks and Atkinsons solved the countless problems at steps along the entire path of the journey. These seem like very complimentary but distinct skillsets. I interpreted the OP as stating there's a lack of the latter, but they didn't comment on the former.
    replies(2): >>44379655 #>>44382022 #
    8. yjftsjthsd-h ◴[] No.44378121[source]
    >These days the idea someone can span that range is seen as an impossibility.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabrice_Bellard ?

    9. jazzyjackson ◴[] No.44378714[source]
    Bill has a great interview with a podcast called Triangulation, couple hours covering all kinds of subjects

    https://twit.tv/shows/triangulation/episodes/361

    10. amelius ◴[] No.44379582[source]
    > QuickDraw (...) These days the idea someone can span that range is seen as an impossibility.

    Reminds me of that guy who built a feature-complete web-version of Photoshop.

    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33334521

    11. xeonmc ◴[] No.44379655{3}[source]
    Would you say if Bill is the Woz of software or if Woz is the Bill of hardware?
    replies(1): >>44381166 #
    12. amelius ◴[] No.44379788{3}[source]
    And then in a twist of the plot, Steve Jobs said "great artists steal" ...
    replies(1): >>44392603 #
    13. 2OEH8eoCRo0 ◴[] No.44380889[source]
    Did agile lead to this?

    Features are planned in sprints. Add a widget here, remove a widget there. We end up with no design principles or vision, just a Frankenstein monster of junk.

    His process sounds a lot like (dare I say) waterfall. Spending a long time in the design phase until you know what you want to build.

    replies(2): >>44381496 #>>44384332 #
    14. jdswain ◴[] No.44381166{4}[source]
    Well Woz was pretty good at software too. He wrote a lot of the early Apple software, including Integer Basic (to write games) and the low level disk software, called RWTS for Read/Write Track/Sector.
    15. qgin ◴[] No.44381197[source]
    It is very hard to be allowed to push or invent anything new in an area that isn’t your job description.
    16. Tabular-Iceberg ◴[] No.44381496[source]
    From the video and what I've read at folklore.org it sounds more like what Agile purports to be, writing software in a tight iteration loop, trying things, getting feedback and adapting to the changing needs of the project.

    I think where Agile goes wrong is people thinking that you don't need someone who is actually experienced and good at writing software like this (like Atkinson), you can just pick a random individual off the streets who a lot of the time can't even code, and have them take a theoretical course about writing software like this.

    17. snowwrestler ◴[] No.44382022{3}[source]
    Every startup goes through a phase where there are very few technical people spanning a huge range of responsibilities. Not all founders or early employees are Steve Jobs. Many are like Bill Atkinson: a broadly talented person who shapes many aspects of a product in development.

    While Apple was not a startup at the time Bill did his work there, the Mac project very much was a startup inside Apple.

    18. vaxman ◴[] No.44384332[source]
    Your question made me throw up in my mouth. RAD, Agile, Dacom, etc. were attempts to codify natural processes so that there could be some semblance of accountability for the resource allocations. They were not a glimmer in the eye of their warped creators eyes until decades after Lisa.
    19. al_borland ◴[] No.44392603{4}[source]
    The full saying goes, “good artists copy; great artists steal.” It’s usually attributed to Picasso originally.

    I didn’t really understand what this meant until I heard Johnny Cash’s version of Hurt. He transformed the song, made it his own, to the point where a lot of people don’t know about the original. Even Trent Reznor said Hurt is Johnny Cash’s song now. This is how a great artist steals; they elevate and transform the original into something new that is able to connect with more people in a deeper way.

    When Jobs said it, I’m sure his view was that Apple took what they saw at Xerox and made it their own, to a level that makes Xerox’s original largely irrelevant, like a great artist would. Meanwhile, Microsoft were not great artists, and simply copied.