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A new PNG spec

(www.programmax.net)
672 points bluedel | 11 comments | | HN request time: 2.96s | source | bottom
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poisonborz ◴[] No.44375523[source]
Not backwards compatible. We just add it to that nice cupboard "great advanced image formats we will forget about".

Society doesn't need a new image format. I'd wager to say not any new multimedia format. Big corporate entites do, and have churning them out at a steady pace.

Look at poor webp - a format pushed by the largest industry players - and the abysmal everyday use it gets, and the hate it generates.

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michaelmior ◴[] No.44375537[source]
> and the abysmal everyday use it gets

Estimates are that 95% of Internet users have a browser that supports WebP and that ~25% of the top million websites serve WebP images. I wouldn't call that abysmal.

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dotancohen ◴[] No.44375590[source]
5% of people can't view them, yet 25% of top websites use them?

In what other industry would it be considered acceptable to exclude 5% of visitors/users/clients?

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1. pchangr ◴[] No.44375850[source]
I can tell you, I have personally worked with a global corporation and we estimated that for one of their websites, supporting the 3% that we exclude by using “modern standards” would be more costly than the amount of revenue they get from them. So in that case, it was a rational decision. And up to the 10% cut, management just didn’t want to do the extra investment. So if something falls below that 10% threshold, they just don’t care to get it fixed.
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2. Aachen ◴[] No.44376713[source]
> it was a rational decision. And up to the 10% cut, management just didn’t want to do the extra investment

Rational, or economical? I find it rational to help someone in need since I'd want others to do the same to me, even if it's not financially profitable for me. Imo more factors flow into what's rational, but I understand what you mean by corporate greed working this way (less than 10% of people are blind, neither male nor female, run a free operating system or can't afford a new computer, etc., so yep they're not profitable groups and for-profits don't optimise for that)

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3. majewsky ◴[] No.44376968[source]
You are using the notion of rationality wrong. Rational reasoning can only help you find how to achieve goals that align with your values. It is strictly worthless in choosing your values.

If a corporation has determined that profit maximization is their core tenet, excluding the needs of a minority of users can likely be deduced in a rational manner from that tenet. That is precisely why values need to be forced onto corporate actors through regulation, e.g. in this case through mandatory accessibility guidelines like EU directive 2019/882 that enters into force this very week.

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4. eviks ◴[] No.44379367[source]
Something is off in this calculation, how did they get to such a high cost for such a simple thing as an alternative image format when the web supports multiple???
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5. dooglius ◴[] No.44380115[source]
My guess would be that the users hitting different types of issues are mostly the same; someone who can't view an alternative image format is using an obscure old browser or obscure OS that will inevitably have a ton of other issues too, and fixing only a subset of the issues would not make much difference.
6. dotancohen ◴[] No.44383905[source]
In my experience, accessibility features are needed by about 1.5% of users (E-commerce and some internal business tools). So by your logic, the rational choice is to exclude accessibility?

Or Linux users? Or even Firefox users in our market?

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7. account42 ◴[] No.44386112[source]
Thanks for demonstrating why laws like ADA are needed to force companies to not be bad citizens. We desperately need similar laws to force compatibility with older hardware - one could even champion it under environmental protection.
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8. account42 ◴[] No.44386130{3}[source]
Rational reasoning also takes into account long-term and second and higher order effects which quarterly profit-driven reasoning often ignores. If you support 95% of users and your competitor supports 100% then that may help your competitor getting 100% of them while you get none.
9. pchangr ◴[] No.44399259[source]
By that logic, yes. Thankfully, EU regulation forces them to implement accessibility even if it makes no sense by that specific logic.

As for Linux users… I do recall they were even less than the 3%. Firefox users were more tho.

In any case, I’m almost sure most Linux users were fine. We just didn’t wanted to support old browsers.

10. pchangr ◴[] No.44399269[source]
I absolutely agree. I’m very glad we have accessibility requirements in the EU.
11. pchangr ◴[] No.44399295[source]
No, this was not about the alternative image format. This was about the browsers and screen resolutions that we choose to fully support. We took the data directly from the website visitors analytics. Basically .. resolutions under 1024px and anything older than edge 11 was left out of the scope.