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Ancient X11 scaling technology

(flak.tedunangst.com)
283 points todsacerdoti | 5 comments | | HN request time: 1.126s | source
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rwmj ◴[] No.44371126[source]
It's like the "oh no, X11 suffers from tearing video" problem that they pull out all the time. (A) I have no idea what "video tear" is and (B) I play video all the time on my crappy laptop running X11 and it seems fine for me. But can I ssh to my remote server and run emacs or another program completely transparently yet with Wayland? Nope. I do that with X11 continuously.
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LionEgo ◴[] No.44375047[source]
It depends on the game/application and what you are running and your distro may have enabled TearFree for you. I use Debian and it isn't enabled by default.

If I was to play Dark Souls 3 and/or Elden ring on Linux without tearfree. There is significant screen tearing and the game feels very choppy when playing.

To enable TearFree on Xorg. You typically make a new configuration file that sits in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/ and append to the X configuration

https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/AMDGPU#Tear_free_rendering

There are downside to this, but I would only imagine they are problems on older GPUs.

https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/518362/whats-the-do...

I've never noticed these downsides personally and everything seems to work great.

I don't like Wayland. It still seems very buggy and I am running Debian Trixie and would prefer to keep using X11.

But IME Wayland does have higher performance on older hardware it seems than X. My old laptop could barely play Youtube with X11 (it is the video itself not YouTube being a resource hog, I checked), Wayland performance is much better.

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1. simoncion ◴[] No.44375384[source]
> (it is the video itself not YouTube being a resource hog, I checked)

Did you check by downloading the video and playing it with a good standalone video player like mplayer, vlc, or mpv? If you didn't, then you didn't disentangle the web browser from the video playback.

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2. LionEgo ◴[] No.44376707[source]
I've spent a lot of time in my career working on weird rendering issues on websites/devices. Believe me when I said "I checked", I know WTF I am talking about.

The only thing that was different was Wayland vs X11. Same browser, same browser settings, same OS and same plugins.

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3. simoncion ◴[] No.44377617[source]
> Same browser, same browser settings, same OS and same plugins.

Neat. Did you test outside of the browser? Based on your report, it sounds like you didn't. As you must know, the renderers in web browsers are very, very complex. I suggest you test with a standalone video player before you go blaming the underlying windowing system for performance issues.

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4. LionEgo ◴[] No.44382611{3}[source]
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5. simoncion ◴[] No.44394924{4}[source]
> You have to explain to me how it couldn't have been the window system giving me the uplift in video playback in the browser...

My instance of Firefox has been configured to use only software rendering. This YouTube video <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tO01J-M3g0U> runs fine in both Firefox and mpv. This YouTube video <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjoplqS1u18> drops many frames when played at 8K in Firefox (making it choppy and sluggish), but zero when played at 8K in mpv.

There are a great many variables in play when playing something through a web browser. That's why I suggested you re-run the test without the web browser.

Speaking of "a great many variables"...

> The machine went to sluggish and painful to use, to being reasonably decent.

Then something seems to be wrong with your Xorg config. Whether it's the drivers, the configuration of the system, or both, I don't have enough information to know. Are you running Xorg on an ARM Apple machine? That's apparently known to work very, very poorly because Apple's graphics hardware is "special". Are you running an un-accelerated Xorg video driver (like the VESA or fbdev drivers) or are perhaps using the nouveau driver on Nvidia hardware? The former would certainly be very slow. The latter is known to work fine for some folks and work really, really poorly for others.

> I don't appreciate your snark.

It's not snark. It's an earnest request to reduce the number of moving parts to make troubleshooting easier. And (as we've discovered from further testimony) the web browser wasn't even involved in the slowness... the problem is a misconfiguration of your Xorg install. We would have discovered this if you'd run the requested test, but incidental self-report works just as well.