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168 points todsacerdoti | 20 comments | | HN request time: 1.207s | source | bottom
1. TheDong ◴[] No.44373611[source]
You have to accept Apple's licensing agreement as part of downloading XCode to run this tool (which relies on XCode's SDKs etc).

Quoting from the license agreement:

> You may not use the Apple Software, Apple Certificates, or any Services provided hereunder for any purpose not expressly permitted by this Agreement, including any applicable Attachments and Schedules. You agree not to install, use or run the Apple SDKs on any non-Apple-branded computer, and not to install, use or run iOS, iPadOS, macOS, tvOS, visionOS, watchOS, and Provisioning Profiles on or in connection with devices other than Apple-branded products, or to enable others to do so.

Both xtool itself, and anyone who uses it, is violating this license agreement, and apple has shown itself in the past to be a real ass about this sort of thing.

I think this can fly under the radar as long as no one uses it, but as soon as people actually start using this tool in any significant amount, I wouldn't be surprised if apple comes for it.

replies(7): >>44373741 #>>44373777 #>>44373782 #>>44373907 #>>44373997 #>>44374071 #>>44375788 #
2. sockbot ◴[] No.44373741[source]
So running on Asahi is ok?
replies(1): >>44381094 #
3. paxcoder ◴[] No.44373777[source]
Touched upon here: https://forums.swift.org/t/xtool-cross-platform-xcode-replac...

We need to get EU on this case.

replies(1): >>44375501 #
4. CharlesW ◴[] No.44373782[source]
> Both xtool itself, and anyone who uses it, is violating this license agreement, and apple has shown itself in the past to be a real ass about this sort of thing.

Only with people dumb enough to build businesses on the back of Apple's IP (see: Corellium). Hobbyist/enthusiast use of Apple technologies (see: the Hackintosh community) has a long history of being tolerated.

5. scripturial ◴[] No.44373907[source]
I’m curious, would Apple know if you are building on Linux on a Mac, or building on Linux on PC?
replies(1): >>44375455 #
6. gman83 ◴[] No.44373997[source]
These terms and services would also seem to make it a violation to run CI/CD services that enable Windows & Linux users to build React Native or Flutter apps for IOS?
replies(2): >>44374330 #>>44375045 #
7. m463 ◴[] No.44374071[source]
from what I have always understood...

running under windows/linux booted on apple hardware is fine.

running in a vm/container on apple hardware is fine.

I suspect apple's new container support (like docker supported by apple) is going to make this sort of thing common.

8. wouldbecouldbe ◴[] No.44374330[source]
You need a macOS Server or computer to build via CI/CD
replies(2): >>44379157 #>>44384600 #
9. meindnoch ◴[] No.44375045[source]
Those CI/CD servers are just regular macOS boxes. Typically a bunch of Mac Minis in a rack.
10. bornfreddy ◴[] No.44375455[source]
I would be surprised if they didn't. It is trivial to detect this.
replies(1): >>44375635 #
11. bornfreddy ◴[] No.44375501[source]
This! There is no reason Apple should be able to dictate how their software and devices can be used just so they can exclude other companies from their ecosystem. This measure is a clear example of anti-competitive practices. Free market sometimes needs regulation to be kept free.
12. scripturial ◴[] No.44375635{3}[source]
How would they detect it? If the interface with Apple is simply an API to fetch and upload data. How would they know if the underlying physical machine is an Apple built computer running Linux, or a dell built computer running Linux?
replies(1): >>44379672 #
13. broknbottle ◴[] No.44375788[source]
The tool can still be used to run on a light weight Linux VM running on a Mac Mini or other Apple hardware. At the bare metal layer the host is an Apple branded computer running macOS.
14. sebazzz ◴[] No.44379157{3}[source]
Mac OS Server has been dead for a very long time.
replies(1): >>44385518 #
15. mystified5016 ◴[] No.44379672{4}[source]
What possible reason do you have to assume it fetches only this data?

Apple is absolutely slurping up any and all data they can get about your machine, you, whatever is visible on the network, nearby WiFi networks and your physical location.

They have no reason whatsoever to not do this, they explicitly do this on iOS, and there is a lot of money for them to sell the data they collect about you.

This is how modern corporations are. Apple is no different from Google, Facebook, Microsoft, et al.

replies(2): >>44383637 #>>44384343 #
16. Jotalea ◴[] No.44381094[source]
Asahi isn't Apple-branded but it runs on Apple hardware so.. I think it's ok. Though I'm not a lawyer, so I can't say for sure.
17. ◴[] No.44383637{5}[source]
18. scripturial ◴[] No.44384343{5}[source]
I have not seen any evidence that would lead to a conclusion one way or another.
19. jasonm23 ◴[] No.44384600{3}[source]
Or a github Macos runner
20. wouldbecouldbe ◴[] No.44385518{4}[source]
Whatever you want to call it Apple Cloud. Something with Mac OS