←back to thread

401 points Bluestein | 4 comments | | HN request time: 0.001s | source
Show context
stiray ◴[] No.44363735[source]
I am still waiting for Fairphone and Graphene OS collaboration. This is match made in heaven.

Any Fairphone/GrapheneOS developer reading this? Just do it, document if something is not secure enough for you, but do it. Nothing to think about, you fit together like hand and a glove and any seconds thoughts are depriving the planet of THE PHONE!

Pick the cash we will throw at you and make second generation with the cpu GrapheneOS wants, that will make the /r/GrapheneOS members eyes shine, drooling and crying of joy at the same time. +throw them in a few hardware switches for camera, mic, connectivity,... disabling. No need to wait to be perfect in first iteration (and due to that craziness and perfectionism will never happen), to gain the possibility to be perfect in second or third.

I would love so much to stop buying Google Pixel phones just to install Graphene OS and protect myself from Google and its ecosystem, it seems so counterproductive.

replies(4): >>44363775 #>>44363839 #>>44364179 #>>44364441 #
IlikeKitties ◴[] No.44363839[source]
Fairphones consistently doesn't support a quarter of what graphene os requires. See their FAQ:

https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices

Unless Fairphone becomes significantly better in their security and update policy and integrate a whole lot of new features it's not gonna happen.

replies(2): >>44363930 #>>44365029 #
stiray ◴[] No.44363930[source]
This is the whole point, they should stop nitpicking and start to do it (GrapheneOS side), even if it is not going to be THE most secure phone, there is enough of features that are far more useful then just security (like privacy). I don't mind if they make it payable. With money they will get (I suspect there will be quite a bit less pixels sold) they can make a new phone that will have all the bells and whistles GrapheneOS wants and on the other side, Fairphone developers will figure out it is $$$ worthy to do it.

GrapheneOS has bunch of requirements that are expensive while Fairphone has zero chance to figure out, if investing would make any economical sense, while their normal users dont really care about that security but might regarding privacy. This is a stale-mate position.

Found info about GrapheneOS installations, 250k users(1). Lets say 25% are on old pixels. This is 60k sold pixels.

All Fairphones sold by 2022 were 400k(2).

1. 2024, https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/12281-how-many-grapheneos-u...

2. 2022, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairphone

replies(1): >>44364003 #
IlikeKitties ◴[] No.44364003[source]
> This is the whole point, they should stop nitpicking and start to do it (GrapheneOS side), even if it is not going to be THE most secure phone, there is enough of features that are far more useful then just security (like privacy). I don't mind if they make it payable.

This feels super entitled to me. GrapheneOS Devs have a mission and they get to make that. You get it for free and if you like it you can give them money. If they don't support the hardware you like you are free to fork it and get it to run yourself.

And if security isn't something you care about but privacy is and you feel like there's a difference here you can still install /e/os or lineageos and similar on the fairphone.

replies(1): >>44364012 #
stiray ◴[] No.44364012[source]
Sure they have a mission. But sometimes mission can be done by taking 1 step back to later make 2 steps forward in fast pace.

At the end all profit. While in current state, the culprit, Google profits.

And please keep fallacies like "do it yourself" for yourself, I am talking about collaboration, feel free to open another thread on top level about forks.

Same goes for /e/ ... they just dont compare.

GrapheneOS has two use-cases that are they excelling with, security and privacy.

While security is not really my threat model (some rubber-hose cryptography aka large wrench, solves this issue for any attacker), privacy violations are everyones issue. Even if they dont care.

replies(1): >>44364070 #
IlikeKitties[dead post] ◴[] No.44364070{3}[source]
[flagged]
ikurei ◴[] No.44364334{4}[source]
> Please consider the level of retardation this comment requires, it's impressive.

This is not how we have civilized discussions. To say this just because you disagree with someone about the security of an OS...

Hope the mods see this.

replies(1): >>44365389 #
1. DaSHacka ◴[] No.44365389{5}[source]
You're conveniently ignoring everything that came before that, where they deconstructed why the idea does not make sense.
replies(1): >>44367074 #
2. IlikeKitties ◴[] No.44367253[source]
> Has nothing to do with rudeness. And "deconstruction" was rather narrow mindedness, that is locking GrapheneOS to corporation made phones.

Corporation made phones as opposed to organically grown phones?

Again, no one is locking down GrapheneOS you can literally download the source and try to get it to run on any device you like. You just want someone else to do the work for you because you lack the skills and it's not available for the particular phone you want.

3. IlikeKitties ◴[] No.44367403[source]
> Again, this is a fallacy.

Okay, maybe you are not a native speaker, so you might mean a different thing with fallacy.

Here's the dictionary definition of fallacy

> an idea that a lot of people think is true but is in fact false [0] > a false belief [0]

My comment was

> Again, no one is locking down GrapheneOS you can literally download the source and try to get it to run on any device you like. You just want someone else to do the work for you because you lack the skills and it's not available for the particular phone you want.

Here is the link to the GrapheneOS Source: https://grapheneos.org/source

Here's the GrapheneOS FAQ regarding other Devices [1]

> Many other devices are supported by GrapheneOS at a source level, and it can be built for them without modifications to the existing GrapheneOS source tree. Device support repositories for the Android Open Source Project can simply be dropped into the source tree, with at most minor modifications within them to support GrapheneOS. In most cases, substantial work beyond that will be needed to bring the support up to the same standards. For most devices, the hardware and firmware will prevent providing a reasonably secure device, regardless of the work put into device support.

[0] https://dictionary.cambridge.org/de/worterbuch/englisch/fall... [1] https://grapheneos.org/faq#supported-devices

Where's the fallacy?

---

Now after editing he makes this argument instead:

> And while I am searching for a way for GrapheneOS to grow, you are searching for a way to keep it limited to corporation made phones. And it is corporations that have the most interest to make it insecure trough hardware, SOC is just one day to do it. So you are failing even on security perspective.

There are no not-corporation made phones on this planet. Every conceivable part of a phone is made by a corporations from parts extracted from this planet by corporations, shipped and assembled by corporations. Do you think that the Fairphone, made by the fairphone corporation is not made by a corporation? From There Wikipage [2]

> Fairphone B.V. > Company type Privately held company

> And it is corporations that have the most interest to make it insecure trough hardware, SOC is just one day to do it. So you are failing even on security perspective.

So google, spending literally billions [3] on cybersecurity with a direct interest and industry leading track record in keeping pixel devices secure has an interest to make it insecure?

I stand by judgment: The required retardation for this kind of argument is amazing.

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairphone [3] https://blog.google/technology/safety-security/why-were-comm...

---

So, i'm dealing with a first grade tech student that learned some cybersecurity words. Here's how you can prove me wrong, answer the following simple questions:

1. Why should the GrapheneOS Developers do the work you want them to do? They seem uninterested and I don't see you paying them the 100s of thousands of dollars to hire someone to do the work for them.

2. Name a Phone that's not made by a corporation.

replies(1): >>44367446 #
4. IlikeKitties ◴[] No.44367916{4}[source]
Okay, i have to admit you got me. 10/10 Ragebait until that last edit I was thinking you were serious, but you cannot be. Thank you gave me a good laugh and I haven't been this triggered in a while. Before he edit's let me copy his last edit for posterity, it's amazing.

---

> 1. Why should the GrapheneOS Developers do the work you want them to do? They seem uninterested and I don't see you paying them the 100s of thousands of dollars to hire someone to do the work for them.

They dont do any work regarding security that would matter. As hardly anyone is using GrapheneOS. Most people use it for privacy, I don't know a one single person that would use it for security, I have bootloader unlocked as I don't care, its not something that would be a reasonable threat to me, while government actors are not something, I can defend against as they will break my legs and I will beg them to allow me to enter pin.

> 2. Name a Phone that's not made by a corporation.

So they can immediately stop doing it. It is futile, insecure and worthless even from perspective of privacy unless they give people a chance to use it. And currently they dont with excuse of security.

---

Something about gay fish.

replies(1): >>44367959 #