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FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

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277 points cebert | 43 comments | 24 Jun 25 00:03 UTC | HN request time: 0.002s | source | bottom
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PostOnce ◴[24 Jun 25 00:47 UTC] No.44361768[source]▶
Theoretically, credit should be used for one thing: to make more money. (not less)

However, instead of using it to buy or construct a machine to triple what you can produce in an hour, the average person is using it to delay having to work that hour at all, in exchange for having to work an hour and six minutes sometime later.

At some point, you run out of hours available and the house of cards collapses.

i.e., credit can buy time in the nearly literal sense, you can do an hour's work in half an hour because the money facilitates it, meaning you can now make more money. If instead of investing in work you're spending on play, then you end up with a time deficit.

or, e.g. you can buy 3 franchises in 3 months instead of 3 years (i.e. income from the 1 franchise), trading credit for time to make more money, instead of burning it. It'd have been nice had they taught me this in school.

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lm28469 ◴[24 Jun 25 08:48 UTC] No.44364104[source]▶
> the average person is using

The "average person" is told from birth to consume as many things and experiences as possible as it if was the only thing that could give their life a meaning. The entire system is based on growth and consumption, I have a hard time blaming "the average person"

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john01dav ◴[24 Jun 25 09:03 UTC] No.44364189[source]▶
I acknowledge that such telling exists, but there is still responsibility for people choosing to listen to it. Skepticism is vital. Beyond being skeptical of what you see, it is wild to me that we don't have approximately everyone blocking all ads, cable news, most social feeds, and other such transparently manipulative shit. Advertisement especially is literally industrialized and research-based psychological manipulation to make people do things that make no sense (see what Alfred Sloan did to GM, for an early example) — it's toxic and should be absolutely avoided.
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1. mathgeek ◴[24 Jun 25 09:10 UTC] No.44364209[source]▶
You can’t block all of it all of the time, and children (some of the most vulnerable) especially can’t.
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2. razakel ◴[24 Jun 25 11:04 UTC] No.44364821[source]▶
And that's why government regulation was invented.
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3. tnel77 ◴[24 Jun 25 11:10 UTC] No.44364857[source]▶
True, and this is why you shouldn’t just hand your kid an iPad and peace out. I’m all for technology and video games for my kids, but I’m vigilant to keep my kids’ eyes away from ads. As a result, my kids aren’t foaming at the mouth for the latest and greatest toys and games which was my experience as a child.
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4. wobfan ◴[24 Jun 25 11:18 UTC] No.44364920[source]▶
Thing is, keeping children out of Instagram, Facebook, or whatever new social media is hyping currently will probably make them kind of weirdos in their bubble, e.g. in school. At least this would be my fear (don't have children). And good luck trying to use any of these ad-infested privacy-invading platforms while trying to avoid ads.
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5. xattt ◴[24 Jun 25 11:46 UTC] No.44365096[source]▶
> children … especially can’t

Worry about your own kids, teach them the right values, and use others’ imperfect knowledge to the advantage of your family.

replies(1): >>44365191 #
6. rayiner ◴[24 Jun 25 11:47 UTC] No.44365110[source]▶
I’m not sure my kids have ever seen an ad except for little computer games, and they have laptops and iPads (but no network TV or cable). They are far less exposed to consumerism than when we were kids. My teenage daughter dresses like a hobo.
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7. suddenlybananas ◴[24 Jun 25 11:57 UTC] No.44365191[source]▶
Yeah who cares about society?
replies(1): >>44365452 #
8. BolexNOLA ◴[24 Jun 25 12:14 UTC] No.44365310[source]▶
It takes a lot of work to be a parent and also monitor all that media consumption/stop all ads. The “average person” isn’t as tech savvy as most of us here and that stuff just doesn’t come as easily to them.

For instance I am very comfortable letting my kids play video games. I play a lot myself, I can make good judgments about what is appropriate for them, what is an appropriate amount of time to play, what is good/bad behavior when playing, what systems are a good choice or if online access (if any) is appropriate. I barely need to think about these things, but for some people this is an incredibly time-consuming, intimidating task.

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9. datameta ◴[24 Jun 25 12:22 UTC] No.44365399[source]▶
You mean corporations regulating the government? Oh wait...
10. koakuma-chan ◴[24 Jun 25 12:30 UTC] No.44365452{3}[source]▶
How do you propose to at least get society off TikTok or Instagram? You will only face backlash if you try to utter in that direction.
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11. geerlingguy ◴[24 Jun 25 12:37 UTC] No.44365526{3}[source]▶
It doesn't have to make them weird, especially if you're in a school district where there are no-phone policies. Otherwise it can be difficult, for sure.
12. allenrb ◴[24 Jun 25 12:42 UTC] No.44365565{3}[source]▶
Learning how to stand on your own in school is good practice for doing the same thing in life. By which I’m absolutely not saying “don’t have friends” but rather, you don’t have to be like everyone else.

My kids won’t be on social media until they’re not kids anymore. If none of us take a stand, nothing ever changes.

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13. neutronicus ◴[24 Jun 25 13:04 UTC] No.44365789[source]▶
If they've seen Paw Patrol they've been exposed to ads. I don't mean "commercials" I mean that the entertainment itself is the ad - generating excitement for branded merchandise, but also normalizing the idea of kids accomplishing things and learning life lessons in 20-minute increments with the aid of a tremendous amount of stuff that they just have.

Maybe they haven't but the idea extends to most kids' entertainment.

14. devmor ◴[24 Jun 25 13:43 UTC] No.44366190[source]▶
Or you end up with the opposite end of the problem. I grew up in destitute poverty and was told all my childhood that credit was an evil trap - I should absolutely never use it.

Well, spring forward to me starting a pretty good career as a software developer and wanting to get my first reliable car. I had no credit history and ended up with a 19% APR. That really, really sucked.

It's been 10 years since then and I still get dinged for not having "enough" credit history despite having a couple car loans and several credit cards that I rotate bills on. The whole system feels like it's designed to punish anyone who doesn't fit into the role of a perfect consumer.

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15. nradov ◴[24 Jun 25 14:05 UTC] No.44366412{4}[source]▶
Your kids will create hidden social media accounts that you don't know about. That's what I would have done in their situation.
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16. rangestransform ◴[24 Jun 25 14:07 UTC] No.44366426{3}[source]▶
Is it not ok that parents that spend more time and effort with their kids have better outcomes than parents that spend less time? I’d rather that than have the nanny state regulate everything bad for kids out of existence; we already know what kind of civil rights violations politicians try to justify with children.
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17. potato3732842 ◴[24 Jun 25 14:13 UTC] No.44366487[source]▶
You didn't get fucked with 19% apr because you had no credit history. You got fucked with 19% APR because either the parameters of the loan were really bad or there were some other circumstances. Income less existing obligations vs payment size account for the lion's share of interest rate on an auto loan or just about any other consumer loan.

Credit history is massively over-sold as being impactful by the kind of idiots who live payment to payment.

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18. hansvm ◴[24 Jun 25 14:20 UTC] No.44366569[source]▶
Why'd that suck so much? As a software dev couldn't you just pay it off a month or two later?
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19. tw04 ◴[24 Jun 25 14:30 UTC] No.44366675[source]▶
Half of the country is teaching their kids to take religion literally and never question it, and that any news story that you don’t like isn’t real, simply because you disagree with it.

Handing over an iPad is the least of the issues facing a large portion of our youth and frankly they might be better off if their parents did sit them in front of it and walk away.

20. op00to ◴[24 Jun 25 14:33 UTC] No.44366710{4}[source]▶
I’ve never had anyone say anything other than “yes, that seems like a good idea, I wish I could do that” when i tell them I do not have a TikTok, instagram, twitter, facebook, etc account.
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21. RankingMember ◴[24 Jun 25 14:46 UTC] No.44366852{3}[source]▶
Being an outlier when the in-group is actively having their brains turned to mush seems like the better of the two outcomes.
22. koakuma-chan ◴[24 Jun 25 14:56 UTC] No.44366954{5}[source]▶
I guess they all need those accounts for their student visas.
23. lokar ◴[24 Jun 25 15:14 UTC] No.44367131{3}[source]▶
I agree. My first use of credit was a car loan when I graduated. I had the offer letter to show income (I had not started yet) and some up front sign on / relocation money for the down payment.

It was fine, I paid it off quickly.

24. tr81 ◴[24 Jun 25 15:28 UTC] No.44367272{4}[source]▶
It is very hard work raising kids if you are interested in parenting and want to do your best.

The thing is that not everyone's life goal is to be the best parent around. And there is pressure from the society/culture/government to reproduce for healthy economy.

If we as a country want people to have more children, then we need to make their job easier. That may include censorship, age verifications, etc.

25. 9rx ◴[24 Jun 25 15:52 UTC] No.44367538[source]▶
> I still get dinged for not having "enough" credit history

Maybe the data is wrong? I took out a few loans over the years with strange comments from the lenders like "You don't have much credit history", but since it didn't impact anything I didn't think much of it. Somewhere down the line a lender was like "I don't think this is you". Turns out that it wasn't.

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26. mrguyorama ◴[24 Jun 25 16:25 UTC] No.44367888[source]▶
One of the important purposes of a society is to improve the raising of kids who might not be raised well by their parents alone, because it is a valuable outcome to everyone.

You don't choose who you get born to, so if society chooses to say "If you get born to a shitty person, you will suffer immensely and we will do nothing about it", that is a bad society.

Nobody deserves to suffer due to an accident of birth.

Also, "It takes a village to raise a child" is not exactly metaphorical.

27. olyjohn ◴[24 Jun 25 16:36 UTC] No.44368024{5}[source]▶
Their exposure will still be much less than someone who gives them free reign and lets them sit in the livingroom staring at a phone. They won't be staring at the phone distracted while they're hanging out with the family.
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28. olyjohn ◴[24 Jun 25 16:37 UTC] No.44368043{3}[source]▶
That would depend on what car they bought.
29. kadushka ◴[24 Jun 25 17:03 UTC] No.44368351{6}[source]▶
Hiding things from parents is a far bigger problem than staring at a phone in a living room.
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30. bigstrat2003 ◴[24 Jun 25 17:41 UTC] No.44368736{3}[source]▶
This argument is popular but doesn't hold water. If we suppose for the sake of argument that social media is bad for kids, then it is a parent's duty to keep them off it even if that makes the kid unpopular. As an analogy, consider a kid whose social circle is all shooting heroin. Would it then become acceptable to let your kid do heroin? Of course not. Similarly, even if all the other kids are on social media, it doesn't become acceptable to let your kid use social media (going with the assumed premise that it's bad for them).
31. allenrb ◴[24 Jun 25 18:41 UTC] No.44369387{5}[source]▶
Indeed, I might have done the same. At least that will be a challenge, lacking smart phones.
32. BolexNOLA ◴[24 Jun 25 18:55 UTC] No.44369599{4}[source]▶
You’re making this a very stark, binary choice. Reality is far more nuanced.
33. devmor ◴[24 Jun 25 19:39 UTC] No.44370183{3}[source]▶
I’m not sure what software devs make $15 grand a month in disposable income 2 years into their career, but I certainly was not one of them.
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34. devmor ◴[24 Jun 25 19:41 UTC] No.44370210{3}[source]▶
No, I got 19% APR because I had no credit history. I know this because there is a big detailed letter full of reasons for your offered rate that you receive when you take out a loan.

The fact that you don’t know this suggests you probably don’t know a lot about how loans work.

35. devmor ◴[24 Jun 25 19:42 UTC] No.44370224{3}[source]▶
What do you mean? Your credit report was someone else’s credit history?
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36. andelink ◴[24 Jun 25 19:47 UTC] No.44370267{7}[source]▶
No it’s not. Everyone hid things from their parents. I hid soooo much from my parents. It’s fine. It’s normal. It’s far more important to have limited exposure to modern smart phones.
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37. 9rx ◴[24 Jun 25 19:52 UTC] No.44370331{4}[source]▶
As I understood it, it was a bit stranger than that. There was some minimal activity on the report that was actually me (a phone account, if I remember right), but my credit cards and whatnot didn't show up. But also some activity did that wasn't mine. I was somehow partially combined with another credit history, or something like that. I am not well versed in the technical details to truly understand what the problem was. I had to fill out some form to get it corrected and haven't thought about it since.
38. bluefirebrand ◴[25 Jun 25 05:09 UTC] No.44373788{3}[source]▶
I dunno about you but my first car was when I was 16 working at Tim Hortons for minimum wage, long before I had a software developer salary...
39. blackqueeriroh ◴[25 Jun 25 07:37 UTC] No.44374591{8}[source]▶
The people who say things like this inevitably are the ones who spend ten minutes with a therapist and the therapist’s eyes go wide
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40. andelink ◴[25 Jun 25 17:44 UTC] No.44379952{9}[source]▶
What, exactly, is so problematic about not telling your parents that you smoke weed with your friends before playing video games? What, exactly, is so problematic about not telling your parents who are dangerously religious, that you had sex with your high school girlfriend? These are all normal, innocuous activities of teenagers. A therapist would not think twice about hearing them.
41. doubled112 ◴[26 Jun 25 02:39 UTC] No.44383772{4}[source]▶
I’ve had entries show up on my credit report that were not mine, but my father’s in another city 750km away. I did not want his bill payment history mixed in with mine. At all.

It was actually more difficult to have them removed than you’d expect. I’m sure it is by design. You could start the process only after signing up for an online account, but the actual request needed to be made via fax.

42. mathgeek ◴[26 Jun 25 21:25 UTC] No.44391592{4}[source]▶
Some of the ones in the Bay Area do. Sometimes they don’t realize it’s not the norm.
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43. hansvm ◴[26 Jun 25 22:49 UTC] No.44392226{5}[source]▶
Yeah, it's pretty common in the Bay. I did project that on wherever they're from.

I also didn't expect $15k-$30k in the jump from "not reliable" to "reliable" cars from somebody worried about a 20% interest rate over a long period of time. I have no idea what their background is, but even at today's prices you can do much better than that.