Fairphone 6 is switching to a new design that's even more sustainable

All phones eventually become obsolete, but their guts could be used in so many ways. I'd love for example if someone made an enclosure acting also as multi port docking station so that old phones with unlocked bootloader (Fairphone being one of them) could be reflashed with a different operating system then used as mini PCs, media players, IoT wall terminals with bigger screens or other uses. Seeing all that perfectly good electronics going into landfills because planned obsolescence says so just irritates me. Can we do that at least for unlocked ones? Framework did something similar for their laptop mainboards, minus the docking station.function as they already have more ports than a phone. Any chances that this could be doable with Fairphone hardware?

It's certainly technically possible. Phone motherboards have limited wired IO, but USB host mode is enough for a lot of things.

The problem is how locked-down most phones are, and how hard it is to modify their software. Even for the Fairphone, you have to fill out a form on their site to get a bootloader unlock code, and they could close that form if they wished (see Asus). That all means starting an "ecosystem" of accessories and new non-phone software is costly and has an uncertain future.

Personally I think the biggest issue is the theft-prevention functionality that means a phone picked out of e-waste is basically bricked (without some exploit). There's companies making new motherboards out of salvaged Intel chipsets, I'm sure it would be possible to build a business around the reuse of phones, but right now there are just too many obstacles.

I think this could be solved with new legislation. At least here, doing anything with e-waste is already highly regulated. Giving registered e-waste processors the ability to unlock the bootloader of any device would reduce waste, and make unlocked phones something you could reliably buy in bulk. Then I think we could see the kind of aftermarket support for phones.

Citronics from Brussels does that with Fairphone 3 hardware. https://citronics.eu/

I feel that adding new hardware to old hardware might just be compounding the waste. We can slow down the obsolescence, but flash wear is a real issue after a few years; that's caused a few phone replacements in my family.

Heck, even reusing furniture in Western economies can be difficult, because the cost of handling it can easily exceed its value. It sort of survives in charity and antique shops, but only for the nicer items.

> then used as mini PCs, media players, IoT wall terminals with bigger screens or other uses

If they can be used like that, why couldn't they be used... as phones?

Changing phone every two years is not sustainable, even if the old phone is used as an IoT wall terminal: it's still "consuming" one phone every two years. In a sense, an old phone in a drawer uses less energy than an old phone staying powered to control a lightbulb.

> planned obsolescence

Nitpick: I like to call it "premature obsolescence". Planned obsolescence is the idea of engineering the product to not last more than some time. I think nowadays it's often not the case; rather we engineer the product to last for the time of the warranty (1-2 years) and not more. And a product dying after 1 year is "premature", even though it was not actively engineered for that.

I didn't know about this, it's cool!

This said, I have a Fairphone 3 and it is still usable.

You can connect any peripherals including keyboard and mouse using usb-c hub. There are hubs that support external power available already so you can simultaneously charge the phone. I do sometimes use my fairphone with external keyboard case that way. Yes I would like higher quality one that better fits the phone, but I think that would be niche/bespoke expensive product.

People will usually only carry one phone, and they'll want one that is capable of running recent apps, storing their photos and music, and also taking high quality photos.

If you upgrade a phone to get a new one with a better camera, well, the processor on the old one is probably decent still, it could be a mini PC where the camera quality doesn't matter.

Also, it's a status symbol, you can't just _not_ upgrade.

> they'll want one that is capable of

My feeling is that phones are not evolving that quickly anymore, though.

> If you upgrade a phone to get a new one with a better camera, well, the processor on the old one is probably decent still, it could be a mini PC where the camera quality doesn't matter.

Sure, but if you didn't need the mini PC in the first place, then it's not more sustainable than throwing it away. It's actually less sustainable, because now you consume energy for a mini PC you didn't need.

Not saying people should not get their new toy. Just that they should not pretend it's sustainable :-).

> Also, it's a status symbol, you can't just _not_ upgrade.

Around me it's become more and more of a status symbol to not upgrade. It's sometimes almost a competition of "who has the oldest phone", and nobody is impressed by someone buying the latest iPhone. So... it's not the same everywhere :-).

> Also, it's a status symbol, you can't just _not_ upgrade.

This is a huge part of the change we need. I felt proud in a way to show off that I was still using an iPhone 8 until a couple of years ago, and I admire some (techy) people I know still using a phone from that time.

Is pride a healthy, wholesome motivator? May be not, but we're human.

AFAIK, citronics uses Fairphone 2 hardware:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43230764

> Even for the Fairphone, you have to fill out a form on their site to get a bootloader unlock code, and they could close that form if they wished (see Asus).

You also need to sign up with Google to even get past the setup screen, and the phone needs to reach Google's servers and ask for permission to be used. Even if Fairphone would like to keep phones usable, Google can decide otherwise at any time.

I started a thread on this topic on their forums, and they seem to have no interest in fixing this. I wouldn't consider hardware sustainable if it needs to talk to Google's servers to be used and remains completely locked down otherwise. If you find one of these devices in a drawer in 15 years, and Google has changed their server's API, then the phone is as usable as any other brand

(nitpick: you have to "enter a contractual agreement" with Google, and not create an account. Folks on the forums seemed to be obsessed with the choice of word around this, although practically, it makes no difference).

> Also, it's a status symbol, you can't just _not_ upgrade.

You can choose not to upgrade.

Obtaining status symbols is a choice (and a pretty vain one too). Even if your lifestyle requires these empty displays of status, that's a choice of lifestyle that you've made.

You can be perfectly successful in life with a 5 years old phone.

> If they can be used like that, why couldn't they be used... as phones?

To facilitate planned obsolescence, manufacturers stop providing OS updates after a relatively short time. And then they cease providing security patches after a... still relatively short time.

If you unlock the device and install a custom ROM, which may or may not function adequately for you to begin with, then you're probably also compromising secure boot, which is a problem for the security model of how many people use phones -- and many apps simply refuse to work with this setup (whereas the obsolete OS with no security patches is considered fine, apparently).

> People will usually only carry one phone

On that note, please, someone make a phone with more than 2 active SIMs. At this point, I have four SIMs, and they're more likely to increase than to reduce...

Why couldn’t manufacturers proclaiming to espouse longevity, such as Fairphone, release the vendor source code for out-of-support hardware which are supposedly no longer relevant and so doesn’t matter if the competition can see the code? Or is it an issue of signing certificates?

Under the new EU Ecodesign regulation, smartphone manufacturers must provide software updates for at least 5 years after the date of last sale, not 1-2 years.

(Applies to newly released devices, not to devices which were already on the market as of June 20).

https://single-market-economy.ec.europa.eu/news/new-eu-rules...

Theoretically, it should be possible to design and 3D print such an enclosure, akin to existing video game console mods like the ‘Switch Pro’.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Nintendo-Switch-Pro-kit-transf...

I’ve been experimenting in the past few weeks with an old fairphone : https://far.computer/ Still work in progress, so I haven’t shared it here yet.

Would that translate in 5 years Android updates or just security updates?

> To facilitate planned obsolescence, manufacturers stop providing OS updates

I don't think it works like that. Manufacturers stop providing OS updates as soon as they can because providing any kind of support has a cost. Planned obsolescence means "they care about making it obsolete" (active). But the reality is that they just "don't care about keeping the product alive" (passive). And the only way to make them provide updates is to force them by law.

> If you unlock the device and install a custom ROM, which may or may not function adequately for you to begin with, then you're probably also compromising secure boot

You can relock the bootloader with the FairPhone. You will still have a message saying it's a custom OS, but I don't think it compromises the secure boot, does it?

> many apps simply refuse to work with this setup

I heard that there are apps that refuse to work with an unlocked bootloader, but I haven't heard of apps refusing to work with a relocked bootloader. Is that a thing?

I wonder, but it could be that some of the hardware they use doesn't offer an open source firmware. Qualcomm for instance isn't super open.

IMO we should put in the law that manufacturers have to mainstream their device and provide a way to flash an updated firmware. There is no way they do it without being forced, because it's a pure source of cost for them.

That's how it works: companies optimise in the legal framework we give them. Regulations set that framework.

I quite like the idea of ruling that device sellers have to either offer software support, or allow the hardware to be unlocked

For what you say, the most important is that the USB Type C connector of the phone must not be an antediluvian USB 2.0, but it must be an USB 3.0 or better, and also supporting DisplayPort.

For such phones, using any kind of peripherals, including external monitors, network interfaces or docking stations becomes possible.

There are relatively cheap smartphones with such USB ports, e.g. around $400 from Motorola, but the majority of the smartphones, including many of the most expensive, for which such limitations are inexcusable, are limited to a USB 2.0 interface, which is almost useless today.

While this Fairphone seems to have good specifications otherwise, there is no word about its USB Type C connector.

I am no longer willing to ever spend money on a smartphone that does not support at least USB 3.0 and DisplayPort.

EDIT:

Looking now on Gsmarena at Fairphone 5, I see that it had an adequate USB 3.0/DisplayPort. I have not noticed this before, because when searching for possible upgrades I was not looking to smartphones with CPUs as ancient as those of Fairphone 5.

Hopefully Fairphone 6 will retain the USB interface of its predecessor. This, coupled with a relatively up-to-date mid-range Qualcomm SoC and with a reasonable price for what it offers, can make it an interesting choice.

That doesn't sound like a good sign for holistic sustainability.

I've been forming a theory about companies that want to do good. Something like, they need a C-suite executive who is a true-believer, and, figuratively, a pissed-off street fighter, who can see threats to the mission coming from a block away.

For a familiar example of when this isn't happening: most of, say, privacy efforts I see can be classified into one of: (1) well-meaning, but don't really know what they're doing, and hopelessly out of their league against the supposed threat; or (2) it's really just a product marketing angle, for individual pursuit of career or riches.

> You also need to sign up with Google to even get past the setup screen, and the phone needs to reach Google's servers and ask for permission to be used

IIRC they offer a version with a de-googled custom rom preinstalled, does this apply to this option as well?

Maybe we can do to phones what tech bros did to suits in the early 2000's. There's that saying, something along the lines of, "It used to be that everyone looked to the one in the suit, now everyone looks to the one in a hoodie." Maybe we can convince people that a run down secondhand phone is a display of wealth and power :P

I haven't bought a new phone in ages. I buy second-hand phones (making them often 1-2 years old), then I either resell them after I'm done (usually I cycle every 3-5 years), or I do precisely this - turning them into app controllers or wallets or something. Or games, etc. I keep two around in case one breaks.

This isn't hard. And it saves a ton of money.

The law only cares about security, but manufacturers are free to do better than that.

This does not scale at all. For hobbyist with no kids, sure, spend your time turning old phone for some fancy doorbell, etc. But for normals? Who would maintain such equipment, who would be in charge of testing if the battery will not get overheated once the new device stays for longer time in place X? Who would maintain and support such devices. I don't want to service myself my media player.

Manufactures care about support for as long as they think consumers will care. If phones stop working one month after you buy them consumers would revolt. They have decided that 2 years is an acceptable number for customers - long enough that most will be willing to pay to upgrade after that long. If you are one of the "cheap" customers who want to keep your phone longer they want to force you to spend money and most customers seem to be willing to pay then so they are happy.

> Around me it's become more

You've become older and the status symbols have changed.

And that is why we need regulations that force them to make phones that last longer.

Sure, that's part of it.

But I stay convinced that in the beginning of smartphones, they would dramatically improve every year. Now... not so much.

Why should someone who is going to throw their phone away in 2 years (or less) anyway be forced to subsidize those who want to keep theirs longer? There is a cost to supporting old hardware and that needs to be paid by someone.

I was assuming that we as a society would rather want to survive this century, but you're right, maybe we don't. We surely act like we really, really don't.

But hypothetically, if we were to want to survive, such regulations would be some of the very easy steps to take (and by far not enough, of course).

And again, I think you're right: it's far more likely that we as a society will just collapse, so maybe it's not even worth wondering what we would do if we didn't want it.

Yeah I think you need to install a custom, deGoogled ROM (you can buy Fairphones that come with some).

If you go with the Googled-Fairphone, then it is Googled indeed.

I bought a Fairphone 3 a few years ago with /e/OS, so I don't have that problem. Also in all fairness, the "you have to log into Google before booting" is making it harder to steal and resell phones. I read somewhere that the number of stolen phones got lower since they (Google, Apple, I guess Samsung and the likes) introduced that "protection".

Why should someone who is going to throw their phone away in a day (or less) anyway be forced to subsidize those who want to keep theirs longer? There is a cost to supporting old hardware, and that needs to be paid by someone.

Sure but if old phones could be used like a really powerful raspberry pi (and they are really much more powerful, at least the high end) then the resale value would go up and more people would sell theirs to nerds rather than throwing it away. Still a net positive IMO

Alas, the official website says "USB-C 2.0".

Throwing phones away is not going to cause society to collapse.

Contracts with vendors, usually. Vendors who make not much of their profit from Fairphone and would happily cut them off if they wanted terms like that.

There's a reason Pine64's devices (which are made out of parts with available public datasheets as much as possible - they don't do the software side of things) are mostly made with parts from a few generations ago, whose manufacturer doesn't care much any more.