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193 points leymed | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0.277s | source
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fuoqi ◴[] No.44359889[source]
[flagged]
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matsemann ◴[] No.44359974[source]
But the quote literally spells out it was market forces, not some instability in solar generation?

Your other comment probably got flagged because it started with a huge straw man and had multiple unwarranted jabs in it.

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fuoqi ◴[] No.44360082[source]
Temporary negative prices have been caused by the renewable generation which exceeded the grid demand at the time, which then evolved into the nasty feedback loop caused by the reaction of renewable generation to those conditions. You simply do not get such situation with traditional generation, it's the direct consequence of the intermittent nature of renewables and its high ratio in the total generation.

Also, have you read after the market part? Please watch this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7G4ipM2qjfw if the last quote is gibberish to you. It discusses somewhat different issues, but the point still stands.

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1. jakewins ◴[] No.44363222[source]
> caused by the reaction of renewable generation to those conditions

No, that is not what the report says. It says, just like you say, that renewables reacted to market prices, causing a generation drop. It then says explicitly that synchronous generation caused oscillation, while PV plants showed a flat non-oscillating pattern.

From your comments I worry there are emotional factors clouding how you're reading the report - this was a systemic failure involving many separate technologies:

- Market signals - negative prices - caused a drop in PV generation (as frequently occurs)

- Synchronous plants caused oscillations as a side effect

- Plants procured to dampen exactly those oscillations did not deliver as requested

- TSO then took measures using interconnections to stabilize via other balance area

- This caused - presumed - overvoltages in distribution grids

- PV inverters then shut off, as mandatory by regulatory requirement in response to over voltage

You're absolutely right that PV played a large role here, but that point is diminished by making it out that PV is both the source of the initial generation drop and the source of the oscillations; it is neither.

The market design caused the generation drop, synchronous generators caused the oscillations, TSO action caused distribution overvoltages and regulatory requirements on PV firmware design in response to overvoltage caused the final blackout.