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Backyard Coffee and Jazz in Kyoto

(thedeletedscenes.substack.com)
592 points wyclif | 15 comments | 23 Jun 25 14:37 UTC | HN request time: 1.09s | source | bottom
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nomilk ◴[23 Jun 25 17:59 UTC] No.44358364[source]▶
> on the vibrant business and street culture in Japanese cities and the seemingly very, very low barriers to entry for regular people to participate.

An astute observation that allowing markets to operate without onerous licensing schemes and regulations often has wonderful upsides, allowing quirky and niche interests to survive and even flourish.

A similar situation was true of Melbourne's small bar scene vs Sydney's. Sydney's more expensive/onerous licensing requirements were prohibitive for tiny bars. Whereas Melbourne's licensing was more permissive and less expensive, resulting in an abundance of quirky and interesting venues. Possibly my favourite example was a tiny indy video game bar (it shut down during covid, I think). https://barsk.com.au/skgames/?p=done

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morleytj ◴[23 Jun 25 18:19 UTC] No.44358528[source]▶
A similar situation in the US can be seen in Boston. Historically terrible nightlife and for easily explained reasons. Liquor licenses are distributed by the state at a capped amount that can potentially be increased each year, meaning the majority of new businesses wanting to have alcohol sales will need to purchase an existing liquor license from another business, often at an exorbitant price (over 500k USD on average I believe)

This makes it extremely difficult for any new businesses to start, and massively advantages large chain businesses that have the ability to make the initial investment in securing a license, versus small or quirky businesses which just have no chance getting started.

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1. charcircuit ◴[23 Jun 25 22:08 UTC] No.44360704[source]▶
Why do you need a liquor license for nightlife. There is more to life than just drinking alcohol.
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2. fragmede ◴[23 Jun 25 22:19 UTC] No.44360784[source]▶
Because the economics of it are such that there's where you get your money. How much cover charge are you willing to pay to go out to a club playing local talent on a random weeknight? A cover charge that would actually cover costs at a venue with no bar would be exorbitantly expensive. This is why many places with cheap cover have a drink minimum.
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3. morleytj ◴[23 Jun 25 22:34 UTC] No.44360890[source]▶
Businesses that sell alcohol make a lot of money, businesses that don't tend to go out of business.

Wish it weren't so (I don't drink alcohol, personally), but that's the economics of it.

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4. smelendez ◴[23 Jun 25 22:36 UTC] No.44360896[source]▶
Yeah, this is actually a problem for venues now that younger generations drink less alcohol.

People will drink a beer every set in a show, but they’re less likely to do that with coffee, soda, THC drink, or any other beverage except water, which most bar venues offer for free.

5. charcircuit ◴[23 Jun 25 22:45 UTC] No.44360970[source]▶
Sure, and offering gambling is another good way to make a lot of money. Yet, we don't see every business offer gambling to its patrons.
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6. charcircuit ◴[23 Jun 25 22:47 UTC] No.44360977[source]▶
You can sell other drinks, food, entertainment, services, games, etc. Alcohol isn't the only thing people are able to do at night. There are plenty of activities that are possible.
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7. astrange ◴[23 Jun 25 22:57 UTC] No.44361058[source]▶
Because you can't drink caffeine at night and we don't have any competing depressants.
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8. cg5280 ◴[23 Jun 25 23:14 UTC] No.44361180[source]▶
"Night life" tends to refer to bars and clubs, and regardless of your personal stance on drinking the majority of people going to bars and clubs expect to be able to drink alcohol.
9. csallen ◴[24 Jun 25 00:24 UTC] No.44361616{3}[source]▶
Yes, because you won't go out of business if you don't offer gambling, whereas you will if you don't offer alcohol.
10. bigstrat2003 ◴[24 Jun 25 02:12 UTC] No.44362270[source]▶
You certainly can drink caffeine at night. But maybe that's just a sign I am too habituated to caffeine, because I can drink it and have no ill effects on my sleep schedule.
11. morleytj ◴[24 Jun 25 04:29 UTC] No.44362870{3}[source]▶
I've thought the same thing. Would love if other people were into that.

I'd ask you to consider the following thought experiment. If the regulatory barriers are lower to establish a nightlife business establishment without alcohol as an option, and a large number of people want to do activities without alcohol, why do these businesses not exist in significant numbers?

It's certainly not a novel concept to open a cafe or a late night board game location. If they were sustainable businesses economically, which barriers currently exist that prevent them from being present in cities to the same extent as bars?

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12. Ntrails ◴[24 Jun 25 07:31 UTC] No.44363713{4}[source]▶
Alcohol doesn't just make more money because it has huge margins. It has decent margin, high profit per unit, and a magic trick: it makes people less cautious about spending more.

I have no interest in a second coke or a third coffee. I can drink tea for days, but if it feels pricey I probably only have one or two. Real estate is expensive if that's your customer profile

13. iamacyborg ◴[24 Jun 25 14:36 UTC] No.44366739{3}[source]▶
Fruit machines aren’t uncommon in pubs and late night takeaway places in the UK.
14. BobaFloutist ◴[24 Jun 25 17:29 UTC] No.44368608{3}[source]▶
Alcohol is famously super high margin, though. People will pay like $5-10 for a 54¢ shot of Costco vodka or rum at a comedy club and another $5 if you mix 10¢ of cola into it, you simply can't get the same margins out of even very expensive feeling food which usually needs more labor and prep.

In addition, alcohol lowers the bar for entertainment. Comedy, music, dancing, none of it has to be as good to satisfy if people are at least a bit tipsy, which makes the performers happier, and the customers happier.

15. frollogaston ◴[28 Jun 25 00:50 UTC] No.44401559[source]▶
Plenty of restaurants don't have alcohol. Night clubs are a different story.