←back to thread

2025 Iberia Blackout Report [pdf]

(media.licdn.com)
193 points leymed | 5 comments | 23 Jun 25 18:34 UTC | HN request time: 0.916s | source
Show context
fuoqi ◴[23 Jun 25 20:44 UTC] No.44359889[source]▶
[flagged]
replies(7): >>44359974 #>>44360016 #>>44360080 #>>44360349 #>>44361806 #>>44363227 #>>44363325 #
matsemann ◴[23 Jun 25 20:54 UTC] No.44359974[source]▶
But the quote literally spells out it was market forces, not some instability in solar generation?

Your other comment probably got flagged because it started with a huge straw man and had multiple unwarranted jabs in it.

replies(2): >>44360082 #>>44360400 #
fuoqi ◴[23 Jun 25 21:05 UTC] No.44360082[source]▶
Temporary negative prices have been caused by the renewable generation which exceeded the grid demand at the time, which then evolved into the nasty feedback loop caused by the reaction of renewable generation to those conditions. You simply do not get such situation with traditional generation, it's the direct consequence of the intermittent nature of renewables and its high ratio in the total generation.

Also, have you read after the market part? Please watch this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7G4ipM2qjfw if the last quote is gibberish to you. It discusses somewhat different issues, but the point still stands.

replies(4): >>44360700 #>>44361095 #>>44361265 #>>44363222 #
1. pkilgore ◴[23 Jun 25 22:08 UTC] No.44360700[source]▶
Where is the market for someone to get paid to pump water into a reservoir and let it fall down later for $$$?
replies(3): >>44361027 #>>44361141 #>>44365972 #
2. pdpi ◴[23 Jun 25 22:53 UTC] No.44361027[source]▶
That market exists, but the window of time here is like twenty minutes. Pumps have inertia and take time to spin up, you can't HFT load and generation.
replies(1): >>44362540 #
3. plorg ◴[23 Jun 25 23:09 UTC] No.44361141[source]▶
If you read the report there was a significant amount of solar being produced at low prices and being pumped for storage. Further, the pumped hydro is the first load to be disconnected to balance demand on their system.
4. gusgus01 ◴[24 Jun 25 03:04 UTC] No.44362540[source]▶
I'm not fully informed about pumped storage, but twenty minutes is more than enough for most hydroelectric plants to go from 0 to full power, and that's probably the case for pumped storage as well. Eg,

In the case of Cruachan Power Station: “It takes just two minutes for a turbine to run up from rest to generate mode,” says Martin McGhie, Operations and Maintenance Manager at the power station. “It takes slightly longer for the turbines to run down from generate to rest, but whatever function the turbines are performing, they can reach it within a matter of minutes.”

https://www.drax.com/power-generation/in-energy-storage-timi...

5. ncruces ◴[24 Jun 25 13:21 UTC] No.44365972[source]▶
Partly the neighboring country. Between Spain and Portugal there's 10 GW (~20% or peak load) and 100 GWh of storage (enough for a day's worth of consumption).

But that takes time and requires some rebalancing, because much of that capacity is not closest to the producers. It also requires water, which becomes scarcer in the autumn (not the case here).

So the price can and does become negative for a window. “High frequency trading” the spot prices probably contributed to the problem.