Backyard Coffee and Jazz in Kyoto

Man, I know it is a meme but Japan simply have mastered "aesthetics". It is especially incredible given that they achieved this in an urban area.

For example, consider the vines that are growing on that shed. Is that dirty? Should we clean them to get a pristine shed? Yes, you have to sweep the floor everyday to clean the dust, but should you cut down that small plant growing between the cracks of your building? Or the vines overtaking the roof? I think if you answers no to this, then you understand that sense of aesthetics.

For some people tho, they think its a bad thing (1), which I simply don't understand? I don't understand how people can willingly spend every couple of hours every week to trim their lawn to a pristine, perfect cube of grass. Is this beautiful? I think not. In my apartment, I have trees growing from the cracks of the building, and I think that's beautiful.

I don't know how they do it, it is not simply just being clean. I think parts of it is "allowing nature to take its course" which gives a typical structure depth and age.

1. https://www.reddit.com/r/landscaping/comments/vs1n0n/help_wh...

I've never been to Japan, but lived in Norway for a couple years and I always felt like they had mastered western "aesthetics". Norwegians seemed to really appreciate Japanese/zen styles as well. One thing I always found interesting is most homes in Norway will have fresh flowers, despite living in a climate not conducive to that at all.

They have this word called koselig that we don't have in English that means cozy plus a lot more things, and these Japanese coffee shops really do embody that word.

> Is that dirty?

That’s not what you should be worrying about.

> I have trees growing from the cracks of the building, and I think that's beautiful.

It probably is beautiful. It may also be inconvenient or outright dangerous. As the trees continue to grow and expand the cracks, the building’s structure becomes ever more compromised. Maybe the cracks will expand and more rain will come in, causing mold and making your home less effective at keeping its temperature. Or maybe they’ll expand in a way that a whole wall will fall off.

Seeing plants sprouting from the ground in cities is fun and aesthetically pleasing, I agree. But it is not always safe to let them keep growing.

> I don't understand how people can willingly spend every couple of hours every week to trim their lawn to a pristine, perfect cube of grass.

I once went out of town for two weeks figuring much the same and came back to a freshly cut lawn and a five-day-old notice from the town posted at my door stating that I had three days to trim the lawn or they'd do it for $300.

Yes, the vine being planted ( or let to grow ) is a deliberate choice :). It's not unique to Japan thou.

> I don't understand how people can willingly spend every couple of hours every week to trim their lawn to a pristine, perfect cube of grass.

The funny thing is that you will fine plenty of Western-style gardens in Japan too: perfectly trimmed, symmetrical, sometime even next to Japanese garden. Japanese aristocrats quite love this back in the day.

> the building’s structure becomes ever more compromised

on what timescale though? and in an invisible way?

I believe buildings are seen as more temporary in japan than in the west; maybe point at which the damage is excessive would outlive the building?

We have a word for that: Japandi. "Japandi is an interior design and architecture style that blends Japanese minimalism with Scandinavian functionality."

> Is that dirty? Should we clean them to get a pristine shed?

What do you mean? Are trees dirty?

There is "no nature taking its course" here. Japanese garden also require good deal of trimming, it's just that the style is difference :)

It's a 1 storey building. Even if the vine means it will only last 50 years instead of 100 years, the risks are low and the cost to replace is low.

If we were talking about public infra where thousands will die if a structure fails prematurely, then sure, let's be careful about vines. But if a private land owner wishes to grow vines (or allow vines to grow) on their private building, I think it's fine.

The western obsession with lawns is well past due for a paradigm shift.

So true. I once saw a gardener removing weeds from a moss patch with tweezers. Very meticulous.

> The funny thing is that you will fine plenty of Western-style gardens in Japan too: perfectly trimmed, symmetrical, sometime even next to Japanese garden. Japanese aristocrats quite love this back in the day.

And I dont think that part of Japan is pretty when I visited it. I understand that its not all perfect, of course.

Dirty as in it is something to be dealt with.

> on what timescale though?

Short enough to kill you or your direct descendants. These things can look fine for years and then collapse in one day.

> and in an invisible way?

Makes no difference how visible it is if you don’t understand the risk and do nothing until something happens. And the longer you wait, the harder it will be to remedy.

> I believe buildings are seen as more temporary in japan than in the west

I’m not talking about Japan, I’m addressing the general point.

Have you never been to Los Angeles?

You don't think it's pretty or you just find in uninteresting because it similar to what you already have back home ?

Both are very beautiful to me, because I haven never seen either of them.

> It's a 1 storey building.

I’m not talking about the building in the article, or even Japan specifically, but addressing the general point of trees and other growths which cause literal cracks and compromise structural integrity.

> If we were talking about public infra where thousands will die if a structure fails prematurely

That is exactly what I’m talking about. Well, maybe not thousands, even a four story building with a compromised structure can lead to unnecessary deaths.

Oooooh so that's how to deal with the grass sprouts in my Irish Moss.

> "on what timescale though?"

Depends on how extensive the growth is and how structurally stable the thing is in the first place. But expect major problems on the decades-timescale.

> "and in an invisible way?"

Yes. This is the main problem with allowing unconstrained plant growth near/in/under structures - the degree of structural compromise is hard to assess (especially without spending a lot of $$$), and failure can be sudden. You're not gonna get as much warning as you'd want.

In the US it's a popular look to have vines growing against brick walls. They're beautiful but often hazardous for structural safety, especially if not proactively maintained and constantly monitored (which is $$$!)

[edit] I think overall the focus on the "pleasantly ramshackle" aesthetics of the shack misses the forest for the trees. There's a lot of daylight between "permit small businesses in possibly unsafe structures" and "western status quo norms for business licensure".

I think something Japan gets done really well is making it easy and inexpensive to run businesses, especially hobby businesses. There are a ton of policies that encourage this outcome, and we can and should adopt entire rafts of them without changing existing regs about the physical structural stability of said businesses ;)

This shouldn't really matter, but it matters to insurance. So landlords cut down trees.

Pristine lawns were originally a status symbol thing. You would show off how much land and resources you could waste.

It's a cultural thing called wabi-sabi

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wabi-sabi

I remember roaming around the back alleys of Tokyo, as I'm wont to do to get a true feel for any place I'm visiting, and came across bicycles parked on sidewalks, covered with vines. Those bikes must've been there for several years.

Coming from SF, a couple of thoughts came to mind: first: wow these bikes have been sitting here for a long time. And second: this must be a _really_ safe place, because in SF, a bike parked outside won't last a day or two.

Funny thing is: the area didn't look rundown or anything. It was clean and well maintained. Except for the bikes in vines.

Regarding plants, my English influenced yard in the US contains no “tortured little trees”[1], but is also intentional and beautiful. Investing in beauty without ego is difficult and unusual but not exceptional.

[1] The Essential Pruning Companion by John Malins

> I’m not talking about the building in the article, or even Japan specifically, but addressing the general point of trees and other growths which cause literal cracks and compromise structural integrity.

Structural integrity or uniformity (or some other qualitative)? Yes, occasionally there is an actual structural problem (MSME here) but far, far more often things are torn down or discarded when a slight repair would suffice (other than the preference).

> I don't understand how people can willingly spend every couple of hours every week to trim their lawn to a pristine, perfect cube of grass.

I do ours because our lawn is 70% tumbleweeds (kochia) and cutting it before any of it can go to seed increases the chance that one day it will be only 30% kochia.

It's all of Scandinavia really. Denmark is the same, probably Sweden also (though I have not been there).

If it takes a couple of hours you're obsessing. I cut my quarter-acre suburban lawn in about 45 minutes, with a cheap push mower.

The time it takes to mow your lawn depends mostly on the size of your property. When I was a teenager up we had a little under 3 acres of grass that needed to be mowed. Even with a small non-commercial tractor-style riding mower, it took several hours to do.

Oh of course. But in a town that's rather unusually large. When I think of a place where anyone would complain about the grass not being cut for two weeks, it's in some kind of little townhome neighborhood with a really uptight HOA board.

It's because of setbacks, which are secretly done to make it easier to expand the road. (US traffic engineers only ever want to expand roads, never make them smaller.)

It's just basic good taste.