Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

Amazing !

Decentralizing traffic enforcement is a win-win. Bravo to NYC for opening this sort of program and OP for turning it into an "efficient free market".

Will try it out soon. Bookmarked.

> Decentralizing traffic enforcement is a win-win

Win-win for who exactly? Maybe we need to decentralize and AI-accelerate construction permit reporting too. Your backyard fence looks DIY and not up to code and your porch light looks like a fire hazard.

We absolutely do that all the time?

Most cities have ways for neighbors to report things like this.

Yes, and they're almost exclusively used by the worst type of vindictive chickenshit humans imaginable. I've known people affected by this, whose evil neighbors used 311 as a weapon because they simply didn't like them, and caused them tens of thousands of dollars in forced unnecessary renovations not to mention stress, for trivial violations that are widely ignored.

> Win-win for who exactly?

Society at large? All the people who don't have the breathe the fumes of some garbage commercial vehicle.

> Your backyard fence looks DIY

Provided it's up for code, whether it was "done yourself" or not doesn't matter.

> your porch light looks like a fire hazard.

Absolutely this should be reported.

They're trialing something like that in France. There's a project that uses machine learning on aerial photography databases to search for objects in peoples' backyards, for enforcement,

https://www.theverge.com/2022/8/30/23328442/france-ai-swimmi... ("French government uses AI to spot undeclared swimming pools — and tax them / The government used machine learning to scan aerial photos of properties")

It's not a win-win for society.

What do you think of China, where the application of this idea is widespread?

I lived in China for many many years and this is not a good example. Parking, and driving in general, is chaotic and unregulated. Yes, you have cameras everywhere that detect running on red or taking a wrong lane, but that's about makes it. Speeding, haphazard parking, everything is allowed. Scooters go anywhere. Bikes go anywhere. People go anywhere. Red, green, anything in between, it's a free for all. Like a policeman smoking under "no smoking" signs is totally normal. I'd say, you can get away with mostly anything in China, nobody would care (unless you're non-Chinese, then dutiful neighbors will report your every sneeze).

PS: Yet I do find OP's idea reminding me of China. Having a society that polices itself (just in China it's more about thought, not behavior) is definitely not a thing I would enjoy.

Fines not linked to income means it’s legal if you’re rich. I’m all for fining polluters to disincentivize pollution, but until we have income-pinned fines i’m not reporting any car under $50k

I’ll never understand how people believe bike and pedestrian “infractions” to be the same as that of motor vehicles.

Members of this “get off my sidewalk!” group often fail to realize this: Did you study to become a pedestrian? Did you go to a bicycle driving school to acquire a permit to operate one? Was an exam at all given in order to use public foot or bike paths?

If the answer is no, then you aren’t held to the same standards as cars, which are heavily regulated and require licenses to operate.

Obeying road signs for bicycle and pedestrians are suggestions, rarely enforced, and the worst case scenario is usually you hurt yourself. Your ability to hurt others has an upper bound that society deems acceptable.

I'm a bicycle "driver" myself. I cannot even drive a car, and don't intend to learn. But you should come to China and see how bikes behave.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/3X9BGMPM8Us (electric scooters are classified same as bicycles there)

poor people idling their engines pollute just as much - or maybe more, depending on average vehicle age, etc. - as rich ones, and poor people are much more likely to suffer the negative consequences of that pollution

That is probably true, but since the law doesn’t punish everyone equally it means that enforcing the law equally is oppression.

it's for commercial vehicles, though, so your point doesn't make sense

It does punish everyone equally, if everyone pays the same fine. Some people having more ability to pay does not make the law unjust.

I think it's important to remember that money represents debt. When someone commits a crime, they owe a debt to society. But if they have money, that means society owes a debt to them, so when they pay the fine it balances out.

The system isn't perfect but the idea is that if someone makes a big contribution to society, like by practicing medicine or creating new technology, society's debt to that person shouldn't be cancelled out by a minor offense like a parking violation. But if they aren't contributing much, then breaking the rules could make them into a net negative.

If I make $10/hour and you take $100 from me you’ve taken away 10 hours of my labour. If I make $600 an hour and you take $100 from me you’ve taken away 10min of my labour.

The $100 is equal but the impact is not. Fines are penalties, they don’t represent the cost of something - and a fixed fine is an un-equal penalty.

Your analogy makes some sense, but since wealth and contribution to society aren’t actually linked in reality - only in theory - I can’t get behind it. The wealthiest people in reality are parasites, not those who contribute the most. Owners not builders, CEOs not scientists, money managers not teachers.