←back to thread

1479 points sandslash | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0.216s | source
Show context
tudorizer ◴[] No.44319472[source]
95% terrible expression of the landscape, 5% neatly dumbed down analogies.

English is a terrible language for deterministic outcomes in complex/complicated systems. Vibe coders won't understand this until they are 2 years into building the thing.

LLMs have their merits and he sometimes aludes to them, although it almost feels accidental.

Also, you don't spend years studying computer science to learn the language/syntax, but rather the concepts and systems, which don't magically disappear with vibe coding.

This whole direction is a cheeky Trojan horse. A dramatic problem, hidden in a flashy solution, to which a fix will be upsold 3 years from now.

I'm excited to come back to this comment in 3 years.

replies(10): >>44319579 #>>44319777 #>>44320017 #>>44320108 #>>44320322 #>>44320523 #>>44320547 #>>44320613 #>>44320728 #>>44320743 #
diggan ◴[] No.44319579[source]
> English is a terrible language for deterministic outcomes in complex/complicated systems

I think that you seem to be under the impression that Karpathy somehow alluded to or hinted at that in his talk, which indicates you haven't actually watched the talk, which makes your first point kind of weird.

I feel like one of the stronger points he made, was that you cannot treat the LLMs as something they're explicitly not, so why would anyone expect deterministic outcomes from them?

He's making the case for coding with LLMs, not letting the LLMs go by themselves writing code ("vibe coding"), and understanding how they work before attempting to do so.

replies(1): >>44319869 #
tudorizer ◴[] No.44319869[source]
I watched the entire talk, quite carefully. He explicitly states how excited he was about his tweet mentioning English.

The disclaimer you mention was indeed mentioned, although it's "in one ear, out the other" with most of his audience.

If I give you a glazed donut with a brief asterisk about how sugar can cause diabetes will it stop you from eating the donut?

You also expect deterministic outcomes when making analogies with power plants and fabs.

replies(3): >>44319978 #>>44320055 #>>44320091 #
pama ◴[] No.44320091[source]
Your experience with fabs must be somewhat limited if you think that the state of the art in fabs produces deterministic results. Please lookup (or ask friends) for the typical yields and error mitigation features of modern chips and try to visualize if you think it is possible to have determinism when the density of circuits starts to approach levels that cannot be imspected with regular optical microscopes anymore. Modern chip fabrication is closer to LLM code in even more ways than what is presented in the video.
replies(2): >>44320233 #>>44320255 #
1. tudorizer ◴[] No.44320255[source]
Fair. No process is 100% efficient and the depths of many topics become ambiguous to the point where margins of error need to be introduced.

Chip fabs are defo far into said depths.

Must we apply this at more shallow levels too?