←back to thread

1087 points smartmic | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0.224s | source
Show context
titanomachy ◴[] No.44305194[source]
“Good debugger worth weight in shiny rocks, in fact also more”

I’ve spent time at small startups and on “elite” big tech teams, and I’m usually the only one on my team using a debugger. Almost everyone in the real world (at least in web tech) seems to do print statement debugging. I have tried and failed to get others interested in using my workflow.

I generally agree that it’s the best way to start understanding a system. Breaking on an interesting line of code during a test run and studying the call stack that got me there is infinitely easier than trying to run the code forwards in my head.

Young grugs: learning this skill is a minor superpower. Take the time to get it working on your codebase, if you can.

replies(48): >>44305342 #>>44305375 #>>44305388 #>>44305397 #>>44305400 #>>44305414 #>>44305437 #>>44305534 #>>44305552 #>>44305628 #>>44305806 #>>44306019 #>>44306034 #>>44306065 #>>44306133 #>>44306145 #>>44306181 #>>44306196 #>>44306403 #>>44306413 #>>44306490 #>>44306654 #>>44306671 #>>44306799 #>>44307053 #>>44307204 #>>44307278 #>>44307864 #>>44307933 #>>44308158 #>>44308299 #>>44308373 #>>44308540 #>>44308675 #>>44309088 #>>44309822 #>>44309825 #>>44309836 #>>44310156 #>>44310430 #>>44310742 #>>44311403 #>>44311432 #>>44311683 #>>44312050 #>>44312132 #>>44313580 #>>44315651 #
roncesvalles ◴[] No.44305375[source]
I'd love to use a real debugger but as someone who has only ever worked at large companies, this was just never an option. In a microservices mesh architecture, you can't really run anything locally at all, and the test environment is often not configured to allow hooking up a stepping debugger. Print debugging is all you have. If there's a problem with the logging system itself or something that crashes the program before the logs can flush, then not even that.
replies(5): >>44305439 #>>44305754 #>>44306109 #>>44310661 #>>44312810 #
idontwantthis ◴[] No.44305754[source]
At my company our system is composed of 2 dozen different services and all of them can run locally in minikube and easily be debugged in jetbrains.
replies(3): >>44307287 #>>44307354 #>>44309201 #
ninkendo ◴[] No.44309201[source]
I certainly know how to debug each of the services in my environment, but how do you step-through debug a single request across services? Like, if service A make a gRPC call to service B, are you saying you can “step into” the call from A and your debugger is able to break on the corresponding call in B? And frames from the call in A are there in a logical “stack” from the breakpoint in B?

(Honest question… if such a workflow is possible I’d love to hear about it. Debugging just a single service at a time in isolation is boring and obvious, but if there’s something I’m missing I’d be really curious.)

replies(1): >>44310600 #
idontwantthis ◴[] No.44310600[source]
No I can’t debug multiple services at once, unfortunately. But I will switch between them as I track the request over multiple runs. Also extensive logging in available in grafana helps me know which service is having the issue before I start debugging.
replies(1): >>44311641 #
1. steve_adams_86 ◴[] No.44311641[source]
This is usually enough for me, too. Use tracing, figure out where things fell apart in the traces, isolate those service(s), and debug from there. It's definitely more work. When we start new projects, I encourage people not to use services until proven necessary because this added layer of friction is a real drag. For a lot of us that isn't a choice, though.