←back to thread

The Conquest of Hell Gate [pdf]

(www.nan.usace.army.mil)
57 points sklargh | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0.214s | source
Show context
ddulaney ◴[] No.44022006[source]
It’s fascinating to me what a different view of risk we had in the past.

The no damage being caused on the surface was a “new fact”. That would never fly today, for better or for worse.

replies(1): >>44022307 #
Aloha ◴[] No.44022307[source]
I think one of the problems of modern society is the level of risk people deem acceptable - its now near zero, instead of "reasonable risks".

Aside from that, culturally the value we impart on a single human life has also changed too - death used to be much more common, infant death in particular - its not uncommon to go to an old cemetery and see a single family having buried three or more children, with another 2-3 having survived to adulthood. This was not something limited to the lower classes either, Calvin Coolidge had a son who died of sepsis from a blister while he was president.

replies(3): >>44022546 #>>44022798 #>>44024188 #
ndileas ◴[] No.44022798[source]
Are you implying that was, somehow, good? Because it was bad. Most major religions / ethical paradigms agree on this.

People, individually, should take risks if that's what they want, and it's not going to hurt others. I'm totally fine with skydiving, base jumping, rock climbing, whatever. I'm not fine with pumping chemicals into the local water table because that's the way Grandpa do.

replies(2): >>44022890 #>>44023584 #
kulahan ◴[] No.44023584[source]
These types of arguments are always so easy when you present everything as insanely black and white.

A thought experiment: if we could install a device which increases the likelihood of everyone surviving a car crash by 0.001%, but it costs $100,000 should it be mandated in every car? After all, this involves a victim as well.

I don’t think anyone would agree to that particular law. There is inevitably going to be a cutoff where you say “the increased safety is no longer worth the cost”. That’s acceptable risk and it’s not only good, it’s absolutely necessary to a functioning society.

replies(2): >>44024151 #>>44041475 #
os2warpman ◴[] No.44041475[source]
Your thought experiment is flawed because its results are known already and you are discarding them for a catastrophizing fantasy.

And the harm reduction wouldn't be 0.001%, it would be practically 99%.

And it costs much less than $100k.

It's found in race cars, today, and you can install it today (in most cars).

replies(1): >>44046038 #
kulahan ◴[] No.44046038[source]
What can you install? I’m talking about a fake device. It can’t be installed because it doesn’t exist. It also obviously reduces harm by 0.01% because again, this is a thought experiment meant to illustrate a point.

I literally have no idea what device you think I’m talking about

replies(1): >>44052412 #
1. os2warpman ◴[] No.44052412[source]
5-point harnesses, roll cages, seatbelt-ignition interlocks, fuel cells, fire extinguishers, and Hans devices for drivers and passengers would eliminate nearly all vehicle fatalities.

They exist today and can be added to passenger vehicles for much less than $100k.

Broadly, the only fatalities they wouldn't prevent are offset frontal crashes at speeds so great as to be unreasonable and vehicles that have driven off cliffs or into bodies of water (though many would be able to self-extricate).

These are all dumb devices, I'm sure you were thinking of an AI or self driving doohickey.

We've already gotten results from your thought experiment. The results are: "an arbitrary point where cost/convenience lines cross over, based on general consensus but mainly liability costs".

If $10k (what I spent to get my Miata track-ready) isn't the line, $100k ain't it either-- especially since my solution saves tens of thousands annually and yours, like, less than one (45k deaths * 0.001% = 0.45 lives saved annually).