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    Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

    (yle.fi)
    461 points axelfontaine | 15 comments | 20 May 25 07:40 UTC | HN request time: 0.002s | source | bottom
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    blueflow ◴[20 May 25 08:56 UTC] No.44039357[source]▶
    Get a look on the track topology on openrailwaymap:

    https://www.openrailwaymap.org/?style=gauge&lat=62.774837258...

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    1. reddalo ◴[20 May 25 09:01 UTC] No.44039396[source]▶
    That's very interesting. I wonder why Spain is different than the rest of Europe, given it's connected by land.

    It makes more sense for islands such as Ireland to retain their old gauge.

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    2. Maken ◴[20 May 25 09:27 UTC] No.44039561[source]▶
    Nobody really knows. It was decided back in the XIX century when the rail network was build. The most common answer is that they thought larger locomotives would be required to climb the mountainous terrain in the Peninsula, which was not the case at all. Urban legends say that absolutely nobody in the committee that decided it had any idea about how trains work. Probably it was a protectionist measure to benefit local manufacturers.
    replies(1): >>44040438 #
    3. cladopa ◴[20 May 25 09:46 UTC] No.44039677[source]▶
    The reason is quite obvious if you know Spain's History.

    Given that France invaded Spain in 1807, the military made it necessary to have a different gauge from France. Not only that, the train by the coast was also forbidden in some places as a naval bombardment could disrupt communications in case of war.

    Spain has lots of mountains with a large plateau over 700 meters high and the coast is usually way lower so it makes sense to transport things by the coast.

    replies(1): >>44040201 #
    4. rsynnott ◴[20 May 25 09:47 UTC] No.44039680[source]▶
    > It makes more sense for islands such as Ireland to retain their old gauge.

    Ireland's was kind of an accident; it wasn't even a case of retaining an old gauge as such; it's just that a different gauge won, and, being an island, this didn't matter. The first railway in Ireland was built in 1831 and was what's now called standard gauge. There were a bunch of competing companies, using standard gauge, 1600mm, and various other things. It happens that the two that won both used 1600mm rail, and while that first line from 1831 still largely exists, it was ripped up and replaced with 1600mm over a century ago.

    Britain was exactly the same, except that it happened that standard gauge eventually won and all the other stuff (with the exception of one or two narrow gauge lines, I think) was ultimately replaced or retired.

    Of course, both being islands, in a way the gauge didn't _really_ matter. It matters more in continental Europe, because you have cross-border lines.

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    5. aarroyoc ◴[20 May 25 09:54 UTC] No.44039715[source]▶
    In addition to the other comment, which I agree as I've heard the same, for the most part Spain and Portugal have been operating as if the Iberian Peninsula was an island. The Pyrenees are a big barrier, and in Franco's era the country was very isolated.

    The same happens with the electricity grid, even though it is connected to France, it has very small capacity.

    6. anal_reactor ◴[20 May 25 10:06 UTC] No.44039795[source]▶
    The Iberian Peninsula functioned like an island in many contexts. Yes, it is attached to the rest of Europe, but in order to get there, you need to cross high mountains. Note how few roads and railways cross between Spain and France.
    7. Qwertious ◴[20 May 25 11:08 UTC] No.44040144[source]▶
    Britain is no longer an island - it now has a tunnel connection to France, so as far as rail is concerned, it's a peninsula.
    replies(1): >>44040420 #
    8. 317070 ◴[20 May 25 11:16 UTC] No.44040197[source]▶
    Ironically, Britain is now an island with an extremely busy train connection to continental Europe.

    Soon, you might go from London to Köln without switching trains!

    9. m4rtink ◴[20 May 25 11:16 UTC] No.44040201[source]▶
    The Hisatsu line[1] in Japan was built through pretty insane terrain to make it protected from coastal attacks after the Russo-Japanese war.

    [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hisatsu_Line

    10. rsynnott ◴[20 May 25 11:44 UTC] No.44040420{3}[source]▶
    Yup, but it's just the one connection; even if there were a gauge difference it could be dealt with.
    11. mbroncano ◴[20 May 25 11:46 UTC] No.44040438[source]▶
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_legend

    Probably more to do with the fact that the first train in Spain was build in Cuba

    replies(1): >>44040643 #
    12. Maken ◴[20 May 25 12:12 UTC] No.44040643{3}[source]▶
    But the trains in Cuba used standard gauge. And the early trains in the north of Spain used (and still use) a narrow-gauge. It was when the central government decided to build a nation-wide network that the Iberian-gauge was chosen, making it incompatible with both the pre-existing Spanish railways and other continental European railways, in the infamous "Informe Subercase" [1]. It is the perfect example of design-by-committee, in which no technical reasons are given other than there are wider and narrower gauges, so they choose an arbitrary middle ground.

    bast copy of the Subercase report I could find: [1] https://www.agrupament.cat/documents/Informe%20Subercase.pdf

    13. siruncledrew ◴[20 May 25 14:10 UTC] No.44041890[source]▶
    Did Britain start out with the same gauge as India?

    I kinda expected India and Britain to use the same gauge, and was a bit surprised.

    Also, what's going on in Australia?

    replies(1): >>44043029 #
    14. jabl ◴[20 May 25 15:55 UTC] No.44043029{3}[source]▶
    > Did Britain start out with the same gauge as India?

    No. There was some small lines in Scotland using the same gauge as India, but Britain had a bunch of different gauges and eventually standardized on 1435mm ("standard gauge") as that was the most common one.

    I don't recall where I read it, but IIRC there was some motivation that they wanted a broader gauge for India because they were afraid cars would topple over during storms. Or something like that.

    > Also, what's going on in Australia?

    Each territory built its own railway, with no thought about eventually building a cohesive continental network. In some cases narrow gauge was chosen because it was thought to be marginally cheaper than standard gauge.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_gauge_in_Australia

    15. forty ◴[20 May 25 16:37 UTC] No.44043461[source]▶
    There are still trains going from France to Spain, the train change gauge before crossing the border (in either Cerbère or Portbou station)