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511 points meetpateltech | 12 comments | | HN request time: 0.471s | source | bottom
1. alvis ◴[] No.44007007[source]
I used to work for a bank and the legal team used to ping us to make tiny changes to the app for compliance related issues. Now they can fix themselves. I think they’d be very proud and happy
replies(3): >>44007486 #>>44007602 #>>44008567 #
2. ajkjk ◴[] No.44007486[source]
Hopefully nobody lets legal touch anything without the ability to run the code to test it, plus code reviews. So probably not.
replies(1): >>44013146 #
3. singularity2001 ◴[] No.44007602[source]
that will be an interesting new Bug tracker: anyone in the company will be able to report any bug or add any future request, if the model will be able to solve it automatically perfect otherwise some human might take over. The interesting question then will be what code changes are legal and within the standards of what the company wants. So non-technical code/issue reviewer will become a super important and ubiquitous job.
replies(1): >>44009451 #
4. asdev ◴[] No.44008567[source]
I promise you the legal team is not pushing any code changes
replies(2): >>44009112 #>>44011930 #
5. ◴[] No.44009112[source]
6. SketchySeaBeast ◴[] No.44009451[source]
Not just legal/within the standards, but which actually meet the unspoken requirements of the request. "We just need a new checkbox that asks if you're left handed" might seem easy, but then it has ramifications for the Application PDF that gets generated, as well as any systems downstream, and maybe it requires a data conversion of some sort somewhere. I know that the PO's I work with miss stuff or assume that the request will just have features by default.
7. b0ner_t0ner ◴[] No.44011930[source]
All they need is "vibes".
8. eru ◴[] No.44013146[source]
I'm not sure what you are on about?

You can make arbitrary teams, like legal, make PRs. You would still have the proper owners of the project agree whether they take the PRs. Either by human review and/or by any other review process they set up.

replies(1): >>44016029 #
9. ajkjk ◴[] No.44016029{3}[source]
I am on about the fact that you are imagining something working in a way that it does not work in practice.

You have two choices:

1. A developer makes a PR. They build the app and run it themselves to make sure it works, does what they intended, and nothing unexpected happens, and report on their testing in the PR. There's also a suite of automated tests. Between these you are confident that you can rubber-stamp it without touching the change yourself. But this requires them being able to run the code and intelligently think about it themselves, which AI cannot do.

2. A non-developer uses an LLM to make a PR. The change passes the tests, but you have no other validation about it because it was done by a bot that can't think about how the app actually works. As reviewer you have to pull down the change to run and validate it yourself. Now you are doing the same amount of work as before, except that instead of you telling the LLM to make the change, someone else did.

The only difference is maybe that the activation energy for doing the work was avoided. Which, fine, is non-negligible. But let's not pretend like in the latter case legal "made the change". They did the 1% upfront work of asking the LLM to find where the change goes, and left you the other 99% of actually shepherding it through. The only changes that will work for at all are, like, updating copy/strings/icons---and honestly, at my last job at least, we already let legal (and product, etc) do stuff like that. I suppose the LLM might save them having to figure out how to use Git, at least.

You might imagine there's some software out there where the automated tests are so thorough that you can trust a code change to not break anything if it passes the tests. I have personally never seen such a thing. And in practice many tests validate against strings and other small feature-level details, meaning that the kinds of code changes that other orgs are making are going to be touching the tests as well, so human verification is still required.

replies(1): >>44018879 #
10. eru ◴[] No.44018879{4}[source]
The non-developer can also kick off a build and test the app.

So they can at least check whether the change does what they wanted it to do.

For this to be useful, the code doesn't even have to be good: think of it as a more accurate way to gather requirements and make a prototype. That's useful, even if you throw away the code.

replies(1): >>44024397 #
11. ajkjk ◴[] No.44024397{5}[source]
I've never heard of a nondeveloper having a dev environment set up for testing. Often that can quite technical.
replies(1): >>44025344 #
12. eru ◴[] No.44025344{6}[source]
You set it up for them automatically for them. Just like you set up a new environment automatically from scratch each time you run tests or when running the AI. See eg https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/devcontainers/containers or https://github.com/features/codespaces for some established standards for doing this, but you could also roll your own custom system.

GitHub's codespaces also drive home how the customer/user only needs a browser, which even people in legal will have. No additional software required on their end.