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BuyMeACoffee silently dropped support for many countries (2024)

(zverok.space)
329 points beeburrt | 26 comments | 16 May 25 06:23 UTC | HN request time: 2.008s | source | bottom
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rwarfield ◴[16 May 25 07:07 UTC] No.44002548[source]▶
We have normalized the treatment of the financial and payments systems as things that exist primarily to perform law enforcement surveillance functions. It's the same dynamic that leads to debanking of small accounts - payments firms exist on thin margins and the potential fines for inadvertently servicing a bad actor are stratospheric, so it's entirely logical to play it safe by refusing to service anyone whose profile looks even the slightest bit risky.
replies(8): >>44002574 #>>44002616 #>>44002858 #>>44002883 #>>44002926 #>>44003438 #>>44006920 #>>44009595 #
ngruhn ◴[16 May 25 07:19 UTC] No.44002616[source]▶
The alternate is crypto. That will service anyone for ANY reason.
replies(7): >>44002688 #>>44002727 #>>44002847 #>>44002861 #>>44002979 #>>44003052 #>>44007004 #
sabas123 ◴[16 May 25 07:32 UTC] No.44002688[source]▶
Which is not necessarily a good thing.
replies(2): >>44002714 #>>44002736 #
1. notpushkin ◴[16 May 25 07:35 UTC] No.44002714[source]▶
But not necessarily a bad thing either.

If everything else fails, I know I can still have two things to pay with: cash and crypto.

replies(3): >>44002750 #>>44002773 #>>44002971 #
2. coolcase ◴[16 May 25 07:41 UTC] No.44002750[source]▶
Gold being the ultimate. Cash can be diluted and crypto has unlimited supply (via alt coins). Gold is backed by physics and minted in neutron stars!
replies(2): >>44002801 #>>44003110 #
3. surgical_fire ◴[16 May 25 07:44 UTC] No.44002773[source]▶
A currency has to be accepted in order to perform its role.

Good luck buying groceries or paying the mortgage with Crypto.

replies(4): >>44002817 #>>44002899 #>>44002928 #>>44003125 #
4. briansm ◴[16 May 25 07:49 UTC] No.44002801[source]▶
Strictly speaking, directed energy is the ultimate. Both crypto and gold are both just embodiments of energy, gold being the physical embodiment (via mining and refinement) and crypto being the virtual embodiment.
replies(1): >>44002832 #
5. windward ◴[16 May 25 07:51 UTC] No.44002817[source]▶
I already can't buy things I want with Mastercard and Visa
6. coolcase ◴[16 May 25 07:54 UTC] No.44002832{3}[source]▶
Not really. Gold has no more energy than carbon per gram. E=MC^2. And total energy is unavailable. Carbon had more available chemical energy. (Why we can burn coal not gold).

Bitcoin doesn't store any energy.

Bitcoin is like a F1 car going around a track forever, with your name scribbled on it.

replies(2): >>44002927 #>>44002941 #
7. notpushkin ◴[16 May 25 08:06 UTC] No.44002899[source]▶
Which is why I have a couple bank accounts. If these banks decide they don’t want to work with me anymore (happened a couple times already), or if they decide they don’t want to send money to, say, a particular country (hint hint), I’ll have crypto as a last resort.

(You conveniently left out “cash” from your reply. Cash. I’ll buy groceries with cash, if I can’t use my card.)

8. _Algernon_ ◴[16 May 25 08:11 UTC] No.44002927{4}[source]▶
Both gold and bitcoin are a variant of "proof of wasted energy" or more euphemistically "proof of work". Why that makes it valuable is beyond me, but it isn't really a new thing considering the historic value of gold being much more than its utility as a material.
replies(1): >>44003098 #
9. johnisgood ◴[16 May 25 08:12 UTC] No.44002928[source]▶
There are some stores that do accept BTC, but it is not widespread. It is mostly coffee shops though, not grocery stores.
replies(1): >>44003096 #
10. briansm ◴[16 May 25 08:14 UTC] No.44002941{4}[source]▶
Maybe I didn't explain it well, gold and bitcoin are the 'memory' of used energy, they are not energy sources themselves.

I think of them as representations of the idea that energy is (currently) so abundant and cheap that we can waste it on mining things like gold and crypto, a fundamentally ridiculous concept in terms of real actual human needs.

Once that stops being the case (when fossil fuel starts running out globally), the whole thing - cash, gold, crypto, stocks, bonds, property - everything falls apart.

replies(1): >>44003202 #
11. _Algernon_ ◴[16 May 25 08:20 UTC] No.44002971[source]▶
This is a strange viewpoint considering that crypto is 100% reliant on some of the most complicated and high-maintenance infrastructure ever built by man: the internet.

If "everything else fails" the internet has failed, and crypto will be worthless. Gold will probably still have some value, unless shit really hits the fan.

replies(1): >>44003080 #
12. notpushkin ◴[16 May 25 08:38 UTC] No.44003080[source]▶
We’re talking about different “everything else fails” scenarios. Basically, I’m concerned about my bank accounts being frozen (happened with my Revolut account for example).
replies(1): >>44005139 #
13. notpushkin ◴[16 May 25 08:40 UTC] No.44003096{3}[source]▶
And it varies from country to country. (In any case, I wouldn’t use BTC for everyday purchases – it’s too volatile, and transfers are too expensive. As long as we’re stuck with fiat-based economy, stablecoins are the way to go, IMO.)
14. briansm ◴[16 May 25 08:40 UTC] No.44003098{5}[source]▶
The 'value' in them is that they demonstrate that energy is currently so cheap and abundant to Us that we can waste it frivolously.

It's a sort-of flex, showing off, a demonstration of (energy) wealth. Humanities's peacock feathers.

15. immibis ◴[16 May 25 08:43 UTC] No.44003110[source]▶
Gold has unlimited supply too (via alt metals, e.g., steel)
replies(1): >>44003568 #
16. endre ◴[16 May 25 08:46 UTC] No.44003125[source]▶
there is invariably a vantage point at which non-fiat payments are accepted. this may be crypto, given that there is still infrastructure available for it to operate, but that's unlikely imo.
17. notpushkin ◴[16 May 25 08:58 UTC] No.44003202{5}[source]▶
Bitcoin isn’t valuable because of used energy. The energy here is just a way to limit the rate Bitcoin is produced, and to help prevent double spending.

Bitcoin is valuable because people accept that it’s valuable, same as with cash, gold, crypto, stocks, bonds, property. The price of an apple is $2 is because I offered it to you for $2 and you bought it.

replies(2): >>44003502 #>>44003561 #
18. eimrine ◴[16 May 25 09:52 UTC] No.44003502{6}[source]▶
The people appreciate the value exactly because of used energy (entropy), if you want to rewrite Bitcoin history you are going to spend no less then it has boon spent. The limit of producing of bitcoins is not related to energy.
replies(2): >>44003612 #>>44008783 #
19. coolcase ◴[16 May 25 10:02 UTC] No.44003561{6}[source]▶
Almost. Bitcoin energy use is a way to have a decentralised trust less network. If bitcoin was free to mine the most money would go to the most nodes. It would be proof of DDOS in a sense and would probably seize up pretty quick.

Gold is a bit different. You could stop mining it today entirely and you could still have a gold currency. Stop mining bitcoin and it all effectively disappears!

20. coolcase ◴[16 May 25 10:04 UTC] No.44003568{3}[source]▶
Periodic table enters the chat :). Touche tho.
21. notpushkin ◴[16 May 25 10:13 UTC] No.44003612{7}[source]▶
Yeah. I mean, people value the utility of it: it can be used to transfer value over the Internet, and you can’t steal it by changing values in the DB. PoW is just a means to an end here. I think we largely agree on that.
22. sofixa ◴[16 May 25 13:17 UTC] No.44005139{3}[source]▶
The solution for that is to have redundancy via multiple bank accounts, ideally in multiple countries.

Then nothing short of planning a serious terrorist act can get you kicked out of all accounts.

replies(3): >>44008573 #>>44010055 #>>44011253 #
23. ferbivore ◴[16 May 25 18:37 UTC] No.44008573{4}[source]▶
Is that really the case? Per https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/money-laundering-and-... you can be pretty much completely debanked for only a couple of SARs/STRs, and it doesn't seem particularly hard to have one filed against you.
24. ivewonyoung ◴[16 May 25 19:02 UTC] No.44008783{7}[source]▶
You could make eimrineCoin that's an exact clone of bitcoin, but it'd be extremely unlikely to reach a fraction of BTC's market cap, because others won't consider it valuable although it's mined with energy.
25. immibis ◴[16 May 25 21:46 UTC] No.44010055{4}[source]▶
Are you a resident of multiple countries?
26. notpushkin ◴[17 May 25 01:09 UTC] No.44011253{4}[source]▶
Ah, yes, the classic 3-2-1 method: three accounts in two different countries, one of them being an offshore. Yeah, I’m doing all that (not the offshore part... at least not yet).