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'It cannot provide nuance': UK experts warn AI therapy chatbots are not safe

(www.theguardian.com)
165 points distalx | 8 comments | 10 May 25 15:35 UTC | HN request time: 0.002s | source | bottom
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caseyy ◴[11 May 25 00:28 UTC] No.43950190[source]▶
I know many pro-LLM people here are very smart, but sometimes it's wise to heed the words of world-renowned experts on a subject.

Otherwise, you may end up defending this and it's really foolish:

> “Seriously, good for you for standing up for yourself and taking control of your own life,” it reportedly responded to a user, who claimed they had stopped taking their medication and had left their family because they were “responsible for the radio signals coming in through the walls”.

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mvdtnz ◴[11 May 25 00:59 UTC] No.43950334[source]▶
As much as I tend to defer to experts, you must also be weary of experts whose very livelihoods are at risk. They may not have your interests at heart.
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krainboltgreene ◴[11 May 25 01:14 UTC] No.43950406[source]▶
Hell yeah, rail against those profiteering…therapists.

Man I hate this modern shift of “actually anyone who is an expert is also trying to deceive me”. Extremely healthy shit for a civilization.

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mvdtnz ◴[11 May 25 01:26 UTC] No.43950472[source]▶
Is there something about therapists that makes them inherently noble and not prone to the same incentives as everyone else?
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1. 63 ◴[11 May 25 01:30 UTC] No.43950487[source]▶
The implication was that the low salary selects for people who value helping people more than they value money.
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2. zahlman ◴[11 May 25 01:39 UTC] No.43950535[source]▶
Indeed says that therapists in Toronto, Canada make about CAD $55/hour. That's not FAANG level nor what you'd expect for an MD, but it's not what I'd call low, either.

That said, I certainly don't see therapists as profiteering, in the sense of trying to convince people to pay for therapy they don't need. They might plausibly feel threatened by AI, but they'd absolutely be justified in calling out examples like those in TFA.

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3. krainboltgreene ◴[11 May 25 05:05 UTC] No.43951563[source]▶
The implication is that it's insane to simply apply a "everyone wants to grift from you" angle to anyone who as an expert without any evidence or analysis.
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4. mvdtnz ◴[11 May 25 06:44 UTC] No.43951901[source]▶
I didn't say "grift". Of course therapists are going to warn you against technology that replaces therapists for a fraction of the cost, regardless of how effective it is. That's just human nature. There's nothing wrong with self-preservation, we just need to be on the lookout for it.
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5. yurishimo ◴[11 May 25 11:38 UTC] No.43953091[source]▶
$55/hr in Toronto… not to mention the overhead to pay for the building and support staff, the fact that you can’t bill for 40 hours per week, and the mentally demanding nature of the job listening to people’s mental shit all day.

Hot take: Therapists should earn more than most software devs.

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6. m_fayer ◴[11 May 25 11:54 UTC] No.43953166{3}[source]▶
Given the incredible gap between demand and supply in many places, I think many therapists would welcome a stopgap solution for people on waiting lists or struggling with costs. And they would not feel their livelihoods threatened one bit. That is, if they trusted that stopgap to at worst do no harm.
7. caseyy ◴[12 May 25 05:07 UTC] No.43959812{3}[source]▶
Therapists are definitely the reason for many software devs not burning out. Or burning out slowly enough to earn a retirement.
8. NikolaNovak ◴[12 May 25 12:09 UTC] No.43962076[source]▶
Hmm, how is that calculated? Therapist I'm currently seeing is $150/hour, on the outskirts of Toronto (cheaper cost of living / office space), and is empathically not on the high end of training (i.e. no PhD etc). I've never ever seen one below triple digits, so the notion of average, in Toronto, being $55 doesn't seem right.

Ahh, here we go; Indeed.com includes "Stretch Therapist", Occupational Therapist, Respiratory Therapist, Weight Gain Therapist, Massage Therapist, Care Co-ordinator, and everything else that includes the term "Therapist" in it.