First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

The whole Catholic aesthetic is amazing. Really is the tops.

When you're under its thumb of oppression, all of the aesthetic takes on a very dark and sinister authoritarian tone and becomes symbolic of a lifetime of repression and coercion. Source: raised by an extremely abusive Catholic deacon.

When you're embraced by its grace, all of the aesthetic takes on a very bright and uplifting inspirational tone and becomes symbolic of a lifetime of guidance and empowerment. Source: raised by an extremely loving Catholic mother.

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No fan of the RC church here but I didn't hear any mocking. Just pointing out a counterfactual experience.

No one would have this loaded tone when counteracting someone's trauma in ANY subject - besides that of religion. It is a subject with a uniquely deep entrenchment of someone's fundamental life experiences and beliefs, and is the only subject where someone would have the gall to do such a thing; out of defense of, what they believe, is their very essence as a person.

There is absolutely no shot that someone would respond to someone sexually abused by their parents with, "On the other hand, I have a loving spouse that makes that same action a very loving and peaceful experience!" It's brazenly distasteful.

There was no mention of sexual abuse.

We call those "analogies", my friend.

When someone shares that their time in the Church was marked by coercion and abuse, responding with “well, my experience was uplifting” can feel dismissive of their trauma. It’s similar to hearing a survivor of sexual assault and replying, “my sexual experiences have all been wonderful.” Both experiences can coexist as true, but leading with your positive story in that moment risks minimizing the other person’s pain. It's distasteful, and is not conducive to a productive dialogue.

> Productive dialogue can only arise when all points of view are fairly considered

You have good intent, but I disagree and believe that "fair for all" does not mean "every viewpoint deserves the same consideration". Specifically, I have spent my entire life encountering Christians who try to tell me I've just had a bad experience and that things are great on their side of the pond, if I'd take a look. But I've read the Bible front to back, I was at the top of every class in my religious studies, I engaged critically with theology during my exposure to it. And my holistic experience revealed the deep hypocrisies, conspiracies and power structures inescapably tied to the Church's past and present.

The Catholic Church, and all Judeo-Christian denominations in general, are simply a vehicle for power and control. It treats its followers well, but those who don't fall in line are often subject to very dark corners upheld by violence.

The truth is that while you think your perspective is more considerate than mine, it's actually more ignorant. I have seen the things you've seen in the faith, but you haven't seen what I have seen. You have an incomplete picture about the realities of the Church.

And yes, it does get tiring and eventually a part of the overall trauma to have well-meaning people completely disregard the truths I share with them and tell me I don't know the Church for what it really is, retreating to their own limited experiences without considering the implications of mine. And while it wasn't your intent, as a group behavior it becomes patronizing. I'm glad you had a good Catholic mother. I had abusive, often homeless drug addicts for parents and was left in the care of a very evil man who used to do horrible things to me in the name of your god, and who was directly empowered and blessed by the Catholic Church to carry out his sick abuse.

P.S.

> who may be willing to improve their dialectic skills

this is also patronizing and snarky especially after beginning your post with "Lv. 0 attack dismissed." That is not what I would call dialectically skillful or considerate. We should always strive to engage with others on Hacker News in good faith.

>The Catholic Church, and all Judeo-Christian denominations in general, are simply a vehicle for power and control.

Source: you.

For many, it is a place where they find community and make friends and build their lives around.

>it's actually more ignorant

This kind of crosses into a personal attack, but I'll let it slide. Just don't do that a lot or you'll get scolded by @dang or @tomhow, and with reason.

>a very evil man who used to do horrible things to me in the name of your god

With empathy, God didn't do that to you, you don't even believe in him so it wouldn't make sense for you to blame him. Reminds of something from a great writer, "He who has not God in himself cannot feel His absence", perhaps you're in for a treat later in life :).

There's another famous quote "To Caesar what is Caesar’s and to God what is God’s"; if a crime has been committed against you, there are social structures in place to call in for help, and judge and punish the people involved.

>"Lv. 0 attack dismissed." That is not what I would call dialectically skillful or considerate.

Oh yeah, because I should have taken offense at that and throw a tantrum, instead of writing a thoughtful comment. Sure.

> Source: you.

My source is nearly two thousand years of well-documented history.

> For many, it is a place where they find community and make friends and build their lives around.

That is completely beside the point that not every person gets to have this positive relationship with their cult community, and that some find themselves in its crosshairs.

> This kind of crosses into a personal attack, but I'll let it slide

No. Lol. Calling your viewpoint ignorant is not a personal attack. It's objectively ignorant, as you have already demonstrated. "Let it slide?" Did Jesus teach you that one? You need to check yourself and tone down the pompousness and patronizing attitude in your posts.

> With empathy, God didn't do that to you, you don't even believe in him so it wouldn't make sense for you to blame him

I don't blame an imaginary patriarch who was whitewashed in order to establish colonial White supremacy.

> perhaps you're in for a treat later in life :)

I'm going to again request that you tone down the patronizing, I-know-better-than-you attitude. Apparently you did not pick up on Jesus' teachings of humility.

> if a crime has been committed against you, there are social structures in place to call in for help, and judge and punish the people involved

More demonstrable ignorance. I had no one. Everyone I told ignored what was happening, and the police who frequently ended up at my home told me to endure my abuse or find myself in a more abusive foster care system. The Church and my Catholic family empowered this man to do whatever he wanted. You can't just disbelieve this away. I know you're used to just deciding on randomly believing or disbelieving things without veritable proof, but that's not how reality works. My experience is real, and cannot be shallowly dismissed without acknowledgement as to the very real, very documented violent history of the Church, including the Vatican's ongoing direct involvement of covering up child abuse within its ranks, which again, is public record, with plenty of court cases you can google at your leisure.

> Oh yeah, because I should have taken offense at that and throw a tantrum, instead of writing a thoughtful comment. Sure.

Now you're just in denial and being sarcastic, presenting a false dichotomy. No, there were more than two choices you could make when replying, and practicing some humility would reveal those options to you.