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First American pope elected and will be known as Pope Leo XIV

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606 points saikatsg | 7 comments | 08 May 25 16:30 UTC | HN request time: 0s | source | bottom
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chirau ◴[08 May 25 17:30 UTC] No.43928761[source]▶
I am sure a certain somebody is going to claim credit for bringing the papacy home to America to make it great.
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jm4 ◴[08 May 25 18:30 UTC] No.43929594[source]▶
It's only a matter of time before that same person gets called out by the new pope and responds by calling him a loser. If we're lucky, that will be the catalyst that finally erodes any remaining support he has.
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doomroot13 ◴[08 May 25 18:57 UTC] No.43929972[source]▶
Don't hold your breath. My whole family are staunch Catholics and disliked Francis because of his more "liberal" leanings. Some Catholics believed he was the "anti-christ" and loved Trump. Seriously.
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quesera ◴[08 May 25 19:32 UTC] No.43930379[source]▶
I'm pretty sure you cease to be a Catholic when you call the Pope the anti-Christ. Infallible, God's representative on Earth, etc.

Though in USAmerica, we're pretty flexible on the meaning of "Christian" anyway. Certainly the loudest proclaimers have no resemblance whatsoever to the expected meaning.

Those troublesome CINOs.. Gosh Darn them to Heck.

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bombcar ◴[08 May 25 21:19 UTC] No.43931474[source]▶
The popes have long ruled that once a Catholic, you're stuck as a Catholic, though they may dispense from some requirements, sometimes.

So even the Pope would say that you don't cease to be a Catholic if you call him an anti-Christ. Maybe excommunicated, but to be excommunicated you have to be Catholic.

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quesera ◴[08 May 25 22:03 UTC] No.43931833[source]▶
It strikes me as fairly irrelevant what Catholics call ex-Catholics.

I don't think you can (edit: reasonably) call yourself a Catholic if you do not adhere to certain tenets of the Catholic Church.

(This is where I was going with the calls-themselves-Christian-but-aintnosuchthing comment, but it's less clear on re-read...)

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1. dragonwriter ◴[08 May 25 22:07 UTC] No.43931857{3}[source]▶
> It strikes me as fairly irrelevant what Catholics call ex-Catholics.

> I don't think you can call yourself a Catholic if you do not adhere to certain tenets of the Catholic Church.

If John calls himself a Catholic, and the Catholic Church up to the Pope calls him a Catholic, you are pretty silly saying he is not a Catholic because he doesn't agree with the heirarchy on things on your personal priority list for what makes someone a Catholic.

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2. quesera ◴[08 May 25 22:11 UTC] No.43931887[source]▶
Do you call yourself a Googler after you quit?

You, and they, can use whatever labels serve your, or their, purpose.

But at some point it doesn't make much sense, or have much meaning, to do so.

I'm a Catholic.

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3. dragonwriter ◴[08 May 25 22:19 UTC] No.43931942[source]▶
> I'm a Catholic

Does it make sense to call yourself that if you fail to hold to beliefs of the Catholic Church on central issues like “Who is a Catholic”?

I mean, if we are accepting your argument that neither your belief that you are Catholic nor the Church’s beloef that you are Catholic matters and you are not Catholic despite both of those if you disagree on important matters with the teachings of the Church, what is the natural conclusion?

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4. quesera ◴[08 May 25 22:20 UTC] No.43931954{3}[source]▶
You are making my point.
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5. dragonwriter ◴[08 May 25 22:24 UTC] No.43931978{4}[source]▶
Er, no, I am showing that your two claims conflict. That doesn't support either of them.
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6. quesera ◴[08 May 25 22:37 UTC] No.43932064{5}[source]▶
If one can disbelieve the Primacy of the Pope, and instead that the Pretender wearing the Pope's garments is in fact the anti-Christ, and still believe they are an adherent of Catholicism, then they have asserted a Schism in the Church and that other Catholics are Apostate. You may choose to continue to use the label "Catholic", for convenience or perhaps because you think you are the One True Catholic, but the word no longer has meaning.

For a Church to place a permanent label on a person who holds Apostate beliefs is simple paternalism. A self-declared Atheist is not a Catholic, no matter what any dude with a pallium or a ferula might have to say about it.

7. graemep ◴[09 May 25 08:21 UTC] No.43934803[source]▶
I think the problem is a matter of definition, and a conflict in common uses of the word:

1. Formally a Catholic in the eyes of the church. 2. Calls themselves a Catholic 3. Is Catholic in their beliefs.

The last has a lot of grey areas as its not clear what you need to believe. There is no formal definition. its clear you do not have to agree with the Church on every single thing. On the other hand at some point (e.g. not accepting the trinity) you are seriously at odds with Catholic beliefs.

The first two definitions might sometimes include atheists.