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Design for 3D-Printing

(blog.rahix.de)
837 points q3k | 26 comments | | HN request time: 0.001s | source | bottom
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pclark ◴[] No.43889062[source]
I know they get a lot of hate in the HN community but my Bambu Labs P1S is mind blowing. It’s so easy to use I print 100x more than with my old Ender. It’s motivated me to learn Fusion360 … i’m actually printing droids for my kids to color this very minute.
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1. the_af ◴[] No.43889113[source]
Hate? I missed this. Why hate?
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2. WillAdams ◴[] No.43889155[source]
Non-compliance with GPL and other opensource licensing.

Predatory licensing agreements and cloud software which presumably allows the company to access/steal designs.

replies(2): >>43889218 #>>43893870 #
3. Gerardox ◴[] No.43889218[source]
What are some alternatives? Ty in advance for any hint!
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4. q3k ◴[] No.43889266{3}[source]
My favorite continues to be hardware from Prusa. They're rock solid and respect user freedoms (serviceability/upgradability/hackability). Being made in the EU is also a big upside for me.

I've had an MK3S+ for years and even though it's a primitive machine in comparison to the current Bambu hardware I see no reason to upgrade to something else. It just keeps printing whatever I throw at it and the results continue to be very good. In fact, I seem to have better luck with it than the Bambus I sometimes use at various hacker/makerspaces.

If you just look at the numbers (speed, volume, ...) against Bambu hardware they're not as good, but the reliability and simplicity make up for it IMO. The main missing feature is multi-material support, but that's something I'm not really interested in due to how wasteful the current technology is.

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5. Gerardox ◴[] No.43889337{4}[source]
Thanks for the throughout reply!!
6. Rebelgecko ◴[] No.43889591[source]
GPL issues and concerns about the SaaS-y aspect. Folks on HN and often techy folks in general don't like it when hardware requires an internet connection vs local control. These concerns are somewhat warranted based on recent moves Bambu has made
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7. kiba ◴[] No.43889709[source]
More than that. They tried to gaslight people after people found out the changes Bambu Lab was making.
8. adambatkin ◴[] No.43890284{3}[source]
Prusa. Made in Europe, from quality components (or buy it as a kit from them and build it yourself, which is a really fantastic experience). Hardware is repairable and upgradable and the firmware is open source.

But they cost more than Bambu. Most Chinese things tend to cost less than alternatives, for obvious reasons.

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9. GuB-42 ◴[] No.43890325[source]
Mostly because they are proprietary in a community with an open philosophy, and for being successful doing that.

Most consumer-level 3D printers are derived from the RepRap project, which was about making a 3D printer that prints 3D printers. So if you want your own printer, find someone who already has one to print the specialized parts for you, add a few standard parts (screws, motors, etc...) and build your own, which you can then use to make 3D printers for others. You can then share designs, improve, etc... Totally in the open source spirit, of course, the software part is similarly open source, usually GPL licenced.

And this spirit is found in most of the consumer-level 3D printing world. With open source firmwares and slicers, easy to modify machines, and standard parts. I think one of the the companies that exemplify this the most is Prusa. They 3D print their printers using their own printers, and open source most for their work.

But then BambuLabs came along, and they have proprietary components, a proprietary firmware and a cloud-based system. Their slicer is open source, they don't really have a choice because it is based on GPL software, but they recently made it harder to use the forked version some people made (namely OrcaSlicer), and they did so via an automatic update. Of course people didn't really appreciate.

But maybe the worst part is that BambuLabs printers are actually really great and popular printers, for an affordable (but not cheap) price. And many people think that from now on, proprietary will become the standard.

If you don't care about that, then BambuLabs printers are maybe the best you can get. If you care, go with Prusa. If you are broke and don't mind getting a new hobby, go for something like an Ender3.

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10. the__alchemist ◴[] No.43891109{3}[source]
Raise3D. Even the lower-end ones are expensive, but they're a step up in reliability.
11. ◴[] No.43891383{4}[source]
12. sho_hn ◴[] No.43891386{4}[source]
Note that Prusa recently opened a US-based factory according to their blog, so in addition to EU-made they also got US-made going.

As a big fan of the company I'm hoping this will make them price-competitive to Bambu (or even considerably cheaper) while the tariffs rage. I'm not a fan of the tariffs, but if it gives a boost to the Core ONE launch, welp ... good for them.

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13. lawn ◴[] No.43891750{3}[source]
While they target a completely different audience (tinkerers and DIY vs "just works") the VORON printers are the gold standard of open source printers, and you'll get a very capable machine when built.
14. imtringued ◴[] No.43892396[source]
>But maybe the worst part is that BambuLabs printers are actually really great and popular printers, for an affordable (but not cheap) price. And many people think that from now on, proprietary will become the standard.

This is the correct answer. A lot of people got used to eating shit. Turns out the 3D printer industry was selling you overpriced garbage. Bambu Labs was too good to be true so people were thinking that there must be a catch and now that there is a barely significant inconvenience, they start dog piling the company as if all hell had started breaking loose.

Now look at reality: everyone is building copycats of bambu lab printers, proving that the 3D printer industry was selling overpriced garbage products, because they knew they could get away with it. What people really wanted is the alternative reality where bambu Labs didn't exist and printers still sucked.

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15. GuB-42 ◴[] No.43892985{3}[source]
> Turns out the 3D printer industry was selling you overpriced garbage.

Mostly cheap "garbage" actually. Before BambuLabs, manufacturers competed on price more than anything else, using the Ender3 as a model. BambuLabs printers were considered rather expensive. Kind of an intermediate between semi-professional printers like Ultimakers and Ender3 clones. Even the affordable BambuLabs A1 at its base price is about twice the price of an Ender3.

They did shook things up on the high end though, and this, I think, is a good thing.

16. baq ◴[] No.43893402{4}[source]
Bambu AMS is useful even if you're doing single color prints - you don't have to worry about filament running out, it'll just continue on the next roll if it has the same filament loaded on two slots. It can also print multiple (small) objects in the same job with only one filament change per object.
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17. Pawka ◴[] No.43893452[source]
> If you are broke <...>

Buy used Prusa! Their printers are reliable machines, easy to fix or upgrade. I have seen MK3 or even Prusa Mini (which is a newer option) for ~150 EUR. Still great options for anyone who wants to go into this hobby.

18. q3k ◴[] No.43893772{5}[source]
Right, but I'm also wary of the extra complexity and whether it's worth it for me personally. (I've seen Bambu AMS systems act up, and I also know they're picky about spools).
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19. Orygin ◴[] No.43893870[source]
Have you got a source for the GPL non compliance ?

If I remember what I saw during the day, and from recaps since then, it was only the Bambu Studio slicer (that is a fork of Prusa Slicer), which was provided with review units but without the source code being released yet. The code was released in time for production units. The only violation of the license is if they did not provide the code to reviewers when asked (which may have happened, but is not as clear cut as what their competitors imply)

20. baq ◴[] No.43894536{6}[source]
I'm using the AMS mini with an A1 together with a Sunlu filament drier - never had a single spool on the AMS itself, the filament sits in the drier and the AMS is empty on top of it. Works great with all filament brands I tried.
21. the_af ◴[] No.43894752[source]
> But maybe the worst part is that BambuLabs printers are actually really great and popular printers, for an affordable (but not cheap) price. And many people think that from now on, proprietary will become the standard.

This is the only part I was aware of: I own an A1 Mini and having lots of fun with it. Almost "it just works" (not really there yet, in my opinion, but getting really close).

Thanks for sharing the rest of the background. I was aware about the update (which is optional so far) and wasn't too concerned about it, but I understand why other people may be. I wasn't aware of the "open source", printers printing printers part of the hobby; I'm new to it.

22. the_af ◴[] No.43894788{3}[source]
I gotta say the A1 Mini is the only printer I see myself using, unless something better comes along that is even easier to use.

I see my printer as a tool, a means to an end. I already have hobbies I want to use it for, I don't need another hobby of tweaking, configuring, modding, trying different brands of things, etc. My A1 is almost there and requires very little fiddling. "It Just Works". If I were younger, around the same age trying different Linux distros was a viable hobby, maybe I'd try more open source friendly printers, but I simply don't have the time or patience anymore.

23. the_af ◴[] No.43896309{5}[source]
For those of us in Latin America, Prusa being US-made makes no difference price-wise. Chinese is cheaper.
24. rileyphone ◴[] No.43896490{3}[source]
I got a Sovol SV06 ACE a few months ago as it seemed to have most of the nice features of the Bambu (like auto bed leveling) without the closedness. The printer runs Klipper and you can ssh into it. So far there's been one issue where I had to replace a fan but otherwise it's been great. Much cheaper than a new Prusa too.
25. fennecfoxy ◴[] No.43903668{4}[source]
It's wasteful in part due to Bambu's defaults for purging; they're really high, I imagine to make it "foolproof" but it means I see people (like the YTbers who made a stop motion film with 3d printed objects) waste a loooot of filament, because they have no idea it can be dropped quite a lot before colours start mixing.

It would be lovely for the BL printers/AMS to use a colour sensor at the hotend and then you can run a calibration on purges to determine what is an acceptable threshold when transitioning colours and use the absolute minimum purge amount.

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26. the_af ◴[] No.43904714{5}[source]
I suppose more complexity (like the sensor you propose) would increase the chance of failures or something going unexpectedly. Bambu Labs seems to be going for "It Just Works", at the cost of being wasteful. Seems to be working as a strategy, giving the rave reviews it's getting...

I'm not using my AMS much, precisely because I simply cannot stand the waste and the additional print time.