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1457 points kwindla | 4 comments | | HN request time: 1.427s | source
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aidenn0 ◴[] No.43795946[source]
For anyone curious, if you made a similarly sized gas-powered pickup with an i4 engine, it would be penalized more than a full-sized pickup for being too fuel inefficient, despite likely getting much better mileage than an F-150 because, since 2011, bigger cars are held to a lesser standard by CAFE[1].

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_average_fuel_economy...

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MostlyStable ◴[] No.43796306[source]
Example #5621 that a simple carbon tax would be miles better than the complex morass of regulations we currently have.
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guywithahat ◴[] No.43798144[source]
I don’t think it would be possible to produce a carbon tax that’s simple
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patmcc ◴[] No.43798284[source]
Tax the fuel. Gasoline now has a $X/gallon tax, as does propane, as does coal, whatever.

What is the difficulty with that?

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kasey_junk ◴[] No.43798346[source]
It’s extremely regressive. You’d need to also give a rebate based on income level.
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morepedantic ◴[] No.43801065[source]
Tax the poor for carbon emission. They'll adjust. People will walk, bike, take the bus, car pool, and buy used hybrids instead of mustangs.

PS, regressive use taxes are 100% moral, fine, upstanding, and ethical.

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kasey_junk ◴[] No.43803570[source]
> regressive use taxes are 100% moral, fine, upstanding, and ethical

Turns out you are wrong.

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morepedantic ◴[] No.43809673[source]
Life-style should never be subsidized. God forbid that someone feels the repercussions of their life-style, which is the only feedback mechanism that will ever cause change.

My moral system will stop global warming and save the planet. Your moral system will destroy the planet and kill billions. Everyone needs to be responsible, including the poor. Tough.

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1. kasey_junk ◴[] No.43811217[source]
You don’t know anything about my moral system. I know that you declared all regressive use taxes in all cases as morally right.

But a system that makes it so you must drive an ICE vehicle to participate in the economy, makes the price of food directly indexed to gasoline costs and then provides tax breaks to the rich who can afford to buy new electric vehicles while increasing the taxes on the poor who can’t is not 100% morally right.

There are lots of ways to introduce a gas tax that are ethically sound but they aren’t simple and the idea that _any_ use tax is morally just is idiotic.

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2. morepedantic ◴[] No.43866476[source]
>But a system that makes it so you must drive an ICE vehicle to participate in the economy

You're literally subsidizing this system by preventing use taxes on gasoline.

>provides tax breaks to the rich

42% of people pay no income tax, and 80% pay net zero or less. Poor people care how benefits are apportioned amongst the poor, not how taxes are apportioned amongst the rich.

>You don’t know anything about my moral system.

I know enough: you hate use taxes, because they are regressive (when the metric is % of income, not when it is magnitude).

But use taxes, like any price, provide critical feedback to the consumer to avoid failure modes like the tragedy of the commons.

In this particular case that feedback acts as a restoring force against the literal destruction of the planet's habitability. My moral system doesn't preclude use taxes on general principle, but your moral system does. Ergo, I'm offering a moral system that will save the planet, innumerable ecosystems, and possibly the human species, but you're offering a moral system that lets us feel warm and fuzzy, emphasis on warm.

>I know that you declared all regressive use taxes in all cases as morally right.

What an odd interpretation. I was clearly referring specifically to the regressive aspect of use taxes, not declaring the holiness of every particular use tax conceivable, historical, and existing.

A: "Breathing is 100% moral, fine, upstanding, and ethical." B: "So you want everyone to smoke crack!"

A: "Income taxes are 100% moral, fine, upstanding, and ethical." B: "So we should tax 120% of income!"

Of all the ways you could have interpreted my statement you chose the most absurd.

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3. kasey_junk ◴[] No.43878775[source]
> you hate use taxes, because they are regressive

I think a gas use tax makes a ton of sense and is likely a requirement to get us off ice engines which is imperative.

I don’t think they are ‘simple’ as the op said because to make them both just and politically feasible they need to come with rebates and straight cash payouts. The negotiation of which is as complex as any other form of taxation.

But go ahead and keep believing it’s _me_ who did the absurd reading of comments if it keeps you going.

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4. morepedantic ◴[] No.43901954{3}[source]
You want a gas tax, and then you want to refund the tax to the poor. That's a no-op with extra steps.