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jdietrich ◴[] No.43800782[source]
Twenty years ago, I think there was still a sense that we were collectively laughing with each other about the dullness of small towns. We all had the same shops - Woolworths, Dixons, Our Price, BHS. We all had a leisure centre that looked like everyone else's leisure centre. Some towns were better off than others, some towns had parts that you were better off avoiding after dark, but the majority of towns belonged to the same broad spectrum of bland mediocrity.

Today, I think it's clear who would be being laughed at by whom. The fates of places have so radically diverged that we no longer have a sense of collective identity. All of the places listed in Crap Towns are now unrecognisable, for better or worse. Those familiar shops are now gone; in some places they have been replaced by artisan bakeries and pop-up boutiques, while in others they have been replaced by charity shops or nothing at all. Half the leisure centres have shut and we all know which half.

The upper middle class might have become more humourless and puritanical, but I think that's a subconscious self-defence mechanism, a manifestation of noblesse oblige without real obligation. The working class are too angry to laugh and certainly aren't willing to be laughed at. We all know that we're teetering on the brink of a populist wave, but no-one in a position of power seems willing or able to do anything about it.

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parpfish ◴[] No.43800919[source]
Well put.

A few decades of compounding inequality transforms what used to be good natured ribbing amongst chums into bullying.

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arrowsmith ◴[] No.43800990[source]
What compounding inequality? The UK's Gini coefficient has been trending downwards since the global financial crisis.

14 years of Conservative government made this country more equal, not less, because they flattened the income distribution by making everybody poorer.

The big pattern among rich people in the UK nowadays is not that they're getting richer, it's that they're leaving.

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chgs ◴[] No.43801975[source]
The major change to income levels has been the massive increase in minimum wage. This removes the incentive to work hard and get skills because they aren’t valued, especially outside of London.

The other major change is the continual divergence of wealth.

If you are a 20 year old living near London you can get a crap paying junior job and live rent free for 5 years with parents while you save a 100k deposit (which using things like LISAs).

By the time you’re in your early 30s you have a decent paying job, have met a partner with a similar income, and can buy a house and repeat the cycle.

If you don’t you get the same job but have to pay rent to someone else’s parents, and you never get that deposit, so you’re trapped in the rent cycle.

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1. taurath ◴[] No.43802166[source]
Shocking how similar the fates of the US and the UK are similar. I’m in my 30s and the divergence is starting to become extremely stark between people who had middle class financially supportive parents and those who didn’t.

Kids who’s parents who are well off but wouldn’t pay for college is an entire cohort who are functionally locked out of the housing market. For most of my generation, there is little opportunity, only gatekeeping.

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2. sokoloff ◴[] No.43802583[source]
> Kids [whose] parents who are well off but wouldn’t pay for college is an entire cohort who are functionally locked out of the housing market.

That can’t be a particularly large set. Parents well off is already a small minority case and only a minority of that small minority won’t give support to their kids.

For people in that tiny sliver, I’m sure it feels bad but it doesn’t seem like a solution that works for other “starting from zero” young adults would need changes to also work for this set.

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3. arrowsmith ◴[] No.43802716[source]
If you want to support your child at university in the UK, there's a particular band of middle-class income where you get the worst of both worlds. You make too much to get certain kinds of government support, but you don't make enough that you can comfortably make up the difference.

If you want to put multiple children through uni then it can get very burdensome.

One of many ways in which our system is regressive.

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4. lotsofpulp ◴[] No.43802858[source]
I don't know about the UK, but in the US (20+ years ago), the metrics used to determine "well off" for the purposes of receiving lower prices for higher education had nothing to do with the parents' wealth, and only their income, with no accounting for assets and number of other children, not to mention jobs without access to subsidized healthcare and/or healthcare costs, etc.

In my case, immigrant parents just started earning a little money around the time I go to college, which means I don't qualify for any assistance, parents don't have enough money to pay for my college, nor would I want them to as it would hurt their ability to support my grandparents and my younger sister, so I am taking out loans at full price.

Using income as a proxy for wealth has screwed the middle/upper middle for such a long time, and the actually rich love it (can throw in the nonsense that is earned income taxes here).

5. taurath ◴[] No.43807134[source]
You’d be surprised - parents of an entire generation basically paid for their entire schooling with a part time job. They pay less on their mortgage for a 3 bedroom house than a studio apartment.

In their mind, they made it on their own, and their entire parenting strategy was to teach the lessons of how they made it to their kids.

This is incredibly common with conservatives.

6. chgs ◴[] No.43807802{3}[source]
In 2000 I received the minimum loan, which was enough for full board university accommodation.

Today the minimum loan needs a £250 a month top up to pay for the same accommodation.

The only benefit is that you don’t have to pay for tuition fees until you’re earning a really good wage - rather than having to work all summer to pay for them.