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Pope Francis has died

(www.reuters.com)
916 points phillipharris | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source
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CKMo ◴[] No.43749746[source]
I genuinely liked him, even as an atheist. He seemed to be trying his best to make the world a better place and I can't fault him for that.
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heresie-dabord ◴[] No.43750266[source]
He riled many of his flock and hierarchy when he said that "even atheists can be redeemed". [0]

I will always applaud a person who retreats — even just a little — from dogma and fanaticism.

https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2013/05/29/187009384/...

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dctoedt ◴[] No.43752129[source]
> He riled many of his flock and hierarchy when he said that "even atheists can be redeemed".

It's quite a bit above our pay grade to proclaim categorically who supposedly cannot be redeemed; it verges on blasphemy.

Cf. Job. 38:

1. Then the Lord spoke to Job out of the storm. He said:

2 “Who is this that obscures my plans with words without knowledge?

3 "Brace yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall answer me.

4 “Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation? Tell me, if you understand.

5 "Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! Who stretched a measuring line across it?

6 "On what were its footings set, or who laid its cornerstone—

7 "while the morning stars sang together and all the angels[a] shouted for joy?"

(etc.)

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Job%2038&versio...

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skissane ◴[] No.43756759[source]
> It's quite a bit above our pay grade to proclaim categorically who supposedly cannot be redeemed; it verges on blasphemy.

And the idea that atheists can be saved isn't novel in Catholic teaching – it is implicit in the Holy Office's 1949 condemnation of Feeneyism, [0] in which it declared that a person who doesn't believe in Catholicism due to "invincible ignorance" can be saved by an "implicit desire" for God. Although it didn't include the case of atheists, it didn't exclude them either – suggesting that an atheist who doesn't believe in God in their head (due to some intellectual issue) but nonetheless believes in God in their heart can be saved.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feeneyism

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bmicraft ◴[] No.43756860[source]
> ... who doesn't believe in God in their head [..] but nonetheless believes in God in their heart ...

I'm racking my brain right now dissecting what that even means. Believing there is no one but wishing it wasn't so?

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1. skissane ◴[] No.43756972{3}[source]
In Catholic theology, God is believed to be Goodness itself – in a sense, identical to Plato's Form of the Good (but going far beyond Plato's idea at the same time).

Hence, anyone who loves Good loves God... so a person who truly loves Good, but who due to some intellectual obstacle, isn't able to call that Good "God" – from a Catholic viewpoint, it can be said that they love God without knowing that it is God whom they love – and by that love they can be saved