←back to thread

Pope Francis has died

(www.reuters.com)
916 points phillipharris | 7 comments | 21 Apr 25 08:00 UTC | HN request time: 0.001s | source | bottom
Show context
lr4444lr ◴[21 Apr 25 12:48 UTC] No.43751408[source]▶
I will never forget his sympathy for the motives of the terrorists who massacred staff at Charlie Hebdo:

“If my good friend Dr Gasparri says a curse word against my mother, he can expect a punch,” Francis said while pretending to throw a punch in his direction.

He added: “It’s normal. You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others.”[0]

[0] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/charlie-hebd...

replies(7): >>43751537 #>>43751545 #>>43751547 #>>43751566 #>>43751577 #>>43751982 #>>43758005 #
wat10000 ◴[21 Apr 25 13:05 UTC] No.43751577[source]▶
That’s reprehensible, but also refreshingly open-minded. It shows an awareness that other religions deserve an equal footing to his own. I prefer this over the nuts who decry Sharia law while wanting to implement a Christian equivalent.
replies(3): >>43751711 #>>43751943 #>>43760167 #
rglullis ◴[21 Apr 25 13:20 UTC] No.43751711[source]▶
Any Christian fundamentalist who advocates for its religion to become law is a bad Christian who never understood the lesson behind "Render unto Caesar...".

Now, contrast with Islamic teachings. Not every Muslim will advocate for Sharia, but there is a non-negligible part of them (leadership included) who think that not advocating for Sharia is a sin.

replies(1): >>43752673 #
wat10000 ◴[21 Apr 25 14:53 UTC] No.43752673[source]▶
What’s the contrast? In both cases, there are good people who understand that their religion restricts them, not others, and there are bad people who think the government should enforce their religion.
replies(2): >>43752878 #>>43757985 #
rglullis ◴[21 Apr 25 15:14 UTC] No.43752878{3}[source]▶
What part of Islam actively promotes separation of church and state?

What country with a majority Islamic population is currently going through a secularization process?

replies(1): >>43753026 #
wat10000 ◴[21 Apr 25 15:25 UTC] No.43753026{4}[source]▶
What part of Christianity actively promotes it? There’s that one line, which meaning is debated, in a book full of stories about religious governments.

In any case, I only care about the practicalities. In terms of what they try to achieve, there’s no real difference between the Christian and Muslim dominionists.

replies(1): >>43753203 #
rglullis ◴[21 Apr 25 15:41 UTC] No.43753203{5}[source]▶
> There’s that one line.

And centuries of liberal democracies where the church was just one institution that had no direct rule over its subjects?

replies(1): >>43755842 #
1. larkost ◴[21 Apr 25 20:01 UTC] No.43755842{6}[source]▶
The word "direct" is carrying an awful lot of weight in that sentence. The Catholic Church (as well as the Protestant and others) are very responsible for, or at least implicated in, many horrible things in the last few hundred years alone: - signed off on the slave trade for hundreds of years (even gave excuses about how that was God's will) - during World War II they promised to hide many Jewish children, only to subsequently steal them from their parents arguing that "they are now Christian, it would be a sin to give them to Jews" - the inquisitions - were the justification for so many wars (conversion by the sword) - have long been a tool of repressive governments, arguing that it fell under "obey your father" - in the U.S. many churches, including the Catholic Church have preached that voting for one party (Democrats) is a sin (often about abortion, but other topics have been raised)

In general, the Church's political power has waned over the last 500 years or so, but there are an awful lot of calls from Republicans saying that this is where we have gone wrong.

One only look to the political donations of Opes Dei (Catholic branch dedicated to getting Cristian influence over the "Lay" sphere) to see them as major power players today. The Heritage Foundation (main writers of Project 2025) are intimately bound with the organization. And Chief Justice Roberts is also associated.

So they may not be "direct" rulers, they are major power players.

replies(2): >>43760595 #>>43765483 #
2. rglullis ◴[22 Apr 25 10:16 UTC] No.43760595[source]▶
> So they may not be "direct" rulers, they are major power players.

So are all the other countless media companies, tech corporations, Hollywood, labor unions, pharma companies, academia...

From this list, which one do you think is more intertwined with Government affairs? The Catholic Church or Amazon? The Mormons or Blueshield? Seventh Day Adventists or Disney? The Baptists or General Motors? The Anglicans or FOX News?

replies(1): >>43763968 #
3. wat10000 ◴[22 Apr 25 16:33 UTC] No.43763968[source]▶
Catholics and SDAs don't have a whole lot of political influence here, but evangelicals are basically running the place now.
replies(1): >>43767361 #
4. inemesitaffia ◴[22 Apr 25 19:33 UTC] No.43765483[source]▶
As opposed to Islamic slave trade still existing in 2025? And I'm not talking about modern day slavery.
5. rglullis ◴[22 Apr 25 23:47 UTC] No.43767361{3}[source]▶
Even those "running the place" are doing it within the democratic system established and managed by the State. You can try to twist as hard you can, but to think that the US has become some form of Theocracy is absurd.

I am not going to argue that the democratic institutions are not under attack, but I am arguing that there is no key religious figure remotely close to take power and become the head of State, at any level whatsoever.

replies(1): >>43767387 #
6. bdangubic ◴[22 Apr 25 23:52 UTC] No.43767387{4}[source]▶
if you are the one controlling the head of State you don’t have to actually be the head of State
replies(1): >>43767622 #
7. rglullis ◴[23 Apr 25 00:40 UTC] No.43767622{5}[source]▶
So, let's get back to question I posted before: which of the religious leaders have more control over the head of State than any of Big Tech CEOs? Which congregation in Florida has as much political pull (regardless of direction) as Disney?