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Pope Francis has died

(www.reuters.com)
916 points phillipharris | 4 comments | 21 Apr 25 08:00 UTC | HN request time: 0.867s | source
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d3ckard ◴[21 Apr 25 08:57 UTC] No.43749741[source]▶
I think he will be mostly remembered as a terrible politician, first alienating conservatives with progressive policy and then alienating liberals with very questionable opinions on war in Ukraine.

In the end, nobody was really happy with him. On the other hand, he definitely had a will and a spine to stick to his own opinions - I guess that counts for something.

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deletedie ◴[21 Apr 25 09:56 UTC] No.43750102[source]▶
How very Christ-like
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d3ckard ◴[21 Apr 25 10:12 UTC] No.43750195[source]▶
Yeah, nothing says Jesus like siding with the aggressor due to your own prejudices.
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code_for_monkey ◴[21 Apr 25 11:17 UTC] No.43750618[source]▶
Jesus famously said turn the other cheek
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d3ckard ◴[21 Apr 25 11:56 UTC] No.43750906[source]▶
You can’t turn your other cheek when you’re dead, so I am pretty sure he didn’t mean it as allow yourself to get killed.

Besides, Ukraine did turn other cheek after 2014 war, they just run out of cheeks to turn.

Back to main subject, I believe nothing weakened Pope Francis’s policies as much as his widely misunderstood position on this subject.

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1718627440 ◴[21 Apr 25 17:22 UTC] No.43754269[source]▶
> he didn’t mean it as allow yourself to get killed.

You know, what happened on Easter right?

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1. d3ckard ◴[21 Apr 25 17:58 UTC] No.43754630[source]▶
I do, according to christian doctrine Jesus sacrificed himself for humanity’s sins. That sacrifice wouldn’t be particularly meaningful if it came with expectation for everybody to follow through. As much as I am not a fan of this (or any other) religion, I’m pretty sure it’s not a suicide pact.
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2. 1718627440 ◴[21 Apr 25 19:09 UTC] No.43755360[source]▶
I think getting killed for your belief is exactly what Jesus was arguing for. It was also what all apostles did and the only cause for the next 300 years to be declared a saint.

Jesus' death was special, because he was without sins, he was the son of God (YMMV) and, because was walking around afterwards physically (i.e. capable of touching and eating, etc.) on earth. I am not sure, why you name it suicide, because he didn't killed himself, he got himself killed.

I do not think, that Jesus would defend "the agressor". But fighting in return is also not good, which is where "turning the other cheek" comes into play.

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3. angra_mainyu ◴[22 Apr 25 00:46 UTC] No.43758052[source]▶
There's almost two millennia of counter arguments to the usual attempts to reframe Christianity as strictly "just suicide and turn the other cheek".
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4. 1718627440 ◴[22 Apr 25 06:13 UTC] No.43759503{3}[source]▶
Suicide is a mortal sin, so I'm not sure, if we argue past each other.

> reframe Christianity

How is it reframing, when it is what it is all about? Can you elaborate about the counter arguments?

Of course dying is not the only method of worshiping God and promote the faith, but it is quite effective. And giving the other option is killing people it is definitely the preferred way.