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Pope Francis has died

(www.reuters.com)
916 points phillipharris | 8 comments | 21 Apr 25 08:00 UTC | HN request time: 1.088s | source | bottom
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fforflo ◴[21 Apr 25 10:02 UTC] No.43750147[source]▶
In 2021, during a visit to the Greek island of Mytilene, Pope Francis delivered one of the finest speeches I've ever read:

> This great basin of water, the cradle of so many civilizations, now looks like a mirror of death. Let us not let our sea (mare nostrum) be transformed into a desolate sea of death (mare mortuum). Let us not allow this place of encounter to become a theatre of conflict. Let us not permit this “sea of memories” to be transformed into a “sea of forgetfulness”. Please brothers and sisters, let us stop this shipwreck of civilization!

> We are in the age of walls and barbed wire. To be sure, we can appreciate people’s fears and insecurities, the difficulties and dangers involved, and the general sense of fatigue and frustration, exacerbated by the economic and pandemic crises. Yet problems are not resolved and coexistence improved by building walls higher, but by joining forces to care for others according to the concrete possibilities of each and in respect for the law, always giving primacy to the inalienable value of the life of every human being

Worth reading in full https://www.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/speeches/2021/de...

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contrarian1234 ◴[21 Apr 25 11:37 UTC] No.43750761[source]▶
With no opinion one way or another on the pope.. In the modern world this is a weird criteria to judge people on. I assume like every modern politician, he doesn't write his own speeches. A quite google search seems to confirm it

https://cruxnow.com/church/2015/02/does-the-pope-write-his-o...

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1. wat10000 ◴[21 Apr 25 12:58 UTC] No.43751499[source]▶
Who cares? He said it. The words are his responsibility. If his speech had advocated for grinding orphans into a nutritious paste, we wouldn’t be defending him on the basis that he didn’t write those words. He chose to read them and give them his official backing.
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2. stavros ◴[21 Apr 25 13:55 UTC] No.43752056[source]▶
That's because we mean "credit for how well-written the thing is", whereas you mean "credit for agreeing with the meaning".
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3. amfarrell617 ◴[21 Apr 25 15:21 UTC] No.43752973[source]▶
He still is responsible for the team that wrote it.
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4. serf ◴[21 Apr 25 17:06 UTC] No.43754118{3}[source]▶
a publisher is responsible for a book, but the credit of the thing is poured onto the author.

why?

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5. navigate8310 ◴[21 Apr 25 17:16 UTC] No.43754207{4}[source]▶
Because the book is plastered with the author's as well as the publisher's name. Their separation is easily comprehensible. Whereas when an orator delivers, the separation of the writer is not so apparent. It is automatically assumed the orator is the writer.
6. j_timberlake ◴[21 Apr 25 21:50 UTC] No.43756908[source]▶
This is a perfect example of a motte and bailey. The "motte" is that people should be judged badly for parroting horrible ideas they heard (which makes sense) and the "bailey" is that people should be praised just for parroting nice things they heard (which doesn't make sense).
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7. collingreen ◴[22 Apr 25 02:16 UTC] No.43758501[source]▶
Upvote for practical and informative description of a logical fallacy, with extra love for motte and bailey.
8. wat10000 ◴[22 Apr 25 16:36 UTC] No.43763995[source]▶
Doesn't "motte and bailey" involve the same person taking the more extreme position followed by the more defensible position?