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225 points DonHopkins | 2 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source
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Animats ◴[] No.43700114[source]
These machines have been around for a while. There are at least nine companies selling them.[1] This started in Australia and New Zealand, which don't have much cheap labor.

There's a competing approach - robotic rotary milking.[2] Rotary milkers (giant turntables with cows on them) have been around for decades, and are becoming more automated, down from four people to one.

All this stuff works fine. So there's a huge milk glut.

[1] https://roboticsbiz.com/top-9-best-robotic-milking-machines/

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxhE53G3CUM

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eru ◴[] No.43701901[source]
> All this stuff works fine. So there's a huge milk glut.

Well, you would expect a lowering of production costs to translate into a lowering of consumer prices in a competitive market?

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mschuster91 ◴[] No.43704001[source]
The problem is manifold in its aspects which means there isn't such a clear cause-effect link.

1. countries really don't like being dependent on other countries for feeding their population - the current Russian invasion in Ukraine and the issues surrounding their grain exports have shown how bad such dependencies can get in the worst case.

2. basic agricultural staples - potatoes, grain, rice, but also eggs and milk in powder form - are a global market these days, which means there's a ruthless competition in place, made worse by at least the US and EU doling out insane amounts of subsidies for their farmers.

3. in some markets like China, scandals around food are the norm, which in the case of milk powder led to second order effects like Chinese tourists and expats in Western countries buying up milk powder at scale and shipping it back to their relatives in China - which led to a massive increase in price in affected Western markets, and to the political question if governments are effectively subsidizing China's issues at the cost of citizens.

4. Western masses are getting ever more poor which puts an insane amount of political relevancy to the price of food (see e.g. the current egg issues in the US). At the same time, both distribution, refinement and production of milk (and other agricultural commodities) has seen a massive consolidation wave in the last decades, giving these mega-corporations a massive amount of leverage over everyone else.

5. To protect their farmers, some countries have introduced price regulations (minimal prices) or tariffs, in addition to the subsidies.

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eru ◴[] No.43708566{3}[source]
> 2. basic agricultural staples - potatoes, grain, rice, but also eggs and milk in powder form - are a global market these days, which means there's a ruthless competition in place, made worse by at least the US and EU doling out insane amounts of subsidies for their farmers.

Worse for some suppliers, but better for customers. It's very nice of US and EU tax payers to give the rest of the world cheaper food. Just like it's nice of Chinese tax payers to give the rest of the world cheaper solar cells.

> Western masses are getting ever more poor [...]

Citation needed. Normal statistics say that 'western masses' are getting ever richer.

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1. mschuster91 ◴[] No.43709532{4}[source]
> Worse for some suppliers, but better for customers.

The problem is, it leads to cost-cutting and unsafe practices. The fact that American eggs and poultry meat need to be washed because it would otherwise be unsafe to eat from the horrible conditions the poultry is exposed to is telling enough.

> Citation needed. Normal statistics say that 'western masses' are getting ever richer.

Total wealth may grow but the distribution is ever more in favor of the ultra-rich [1]. Half of Americans report having to live paycheck to paycheck, mostly due to housing and fixed costs of living growing way faster than wages [2].

[1] https://apps.urban.org/features/wealth-inequality-charts/

[2] https://www.cnbc.com/2024/11/19/bank-of-america-nearly-half-...

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2. eru ◴[] No.43713248[source]
> The problem is, it leads to cost-cutting and unsafe practices. The fact that American eggs and poultry meat need to be washed because it would otherwise be unsafe to eat from the horrible conditions the poultry is exposed to is telling enough.

They only need to be washed, because that's what the regulations say. If the regulations say that they need to be save without washing, that's what farmers would deliver. Farmers in the EU aren't any less greedy.

People all across the wealth spectrum are getting richer.

But in any case, coming back to the 'milk glut': cheap milk makes more of a difference for poor people than for rich people.