Most active commenters
  • pjc50(4)

←back to thread

842 points putzdown | 17 comments | | HN request time: 1.36s | source | bottom
Show context
pjc50 ◴[] No.43692988[source]
> China generates over twice as much electricity per person today as the United States. Why?

This appears to be completely wrong? All the stats I can find say that the US has about 4x the per capita electricity generation of China.

Other than that it seems to be mostly good points, especially the overall one: you cannot do this overnight.

> If you’re building a new factory in the United States, your investment will alternate between maybe it will work, and catastrophic loss according to which way the tariffs and the wind blows. No one is building factories right now, and no one is renting them, because there is no certainty that any of these tariffs will last

Policy by amphetamine-driven tweeting is a disaster.

> 12. Enforcement of the tariffs will be uneven and manipulated

Yup. The 145% level seems designed to create smuggling, and the wild variations between countries to create re-labelling. It's chicken tax trucks all over again.

> This is probably the worst economic policy I’ve ever seen

Per Simpsons: this is the worst economic policy you've seen so far. The budget is yet to come.

> If American companies want to sell in China, they must incorporate there, register capital, and name a person to be a legal representative. To sell in Europe, we must register for their tax system and nominate a legal representative. For Europeans and Chinese to sell in the United States, none of this is needed, nor do federal taxes need to be paid.

This is .. not a bad idea, really. It would probably be annoying for small EU and UK exporters but less so than 10% tariffs and even less so than random day of the week tariffs. Maybe one day it could harmonise with the EU VAT system or something.

(also I think the author is imagining that sub-par workers, crime, and drugs don't exist in China, when they almost certainly do, but somewhere out of sight. Possibly due to the internal migration control of hukou combined with media control?)

replies(11): >>43693137 #>>43693301 #>>43693319 #>>43693410 #>>43693431 #>>43693454 #>>43693553 #>>43693635 #>>43704244 #>>43705580 #>>43706047 #
1. pokot0 ◴[] No.43693454[source]
Can someone explain to me why EU VAT is considered a tariff, while US sales taxes are not? They both seem a sale tax to me.
replies(6): >>43693500 #>>43693525 #>>43693585 #>>43693628 #>>43693936 #>>43705147 #
2. pjc50 ◴[] No.43693500[source]
Only people who are wrong consider VAT a tariff. Yes, importers have to pay it, but so do local manufacturers.

VAT has basically the same effect as sales taxes with a much more complicated tax incidence.

replies(1): >>43693639 #
3. charamis ◴[] No.43693525[source]
Really wondering about the same, since VAT is applied to everything too, not only imported products and services.
4. ◴[] No.43693585[source]
5. presto8 ◴[] No.43693628[source]
Because VAT is collected at the border on imports, some people (wrongly) consider VATs a tariff. Considering that VAT is rebated on exports, VATs are trade neutral.

Sales tax as implemented in the US is not as tax efficient as VAT due to the impact of sales taxation on intermediate transactions during manufacturing. VAT only taxes the incrementally the value added at each transaction) whereas sales tax applies to the entire value at each stage.

replies(3): >>43693843 #>>43693916 #>>43708560 #
6. freeone3000 ◴[] No.43693639[source]
At an individual level, it’s not more complicated: it’s reimbursed instead of exempted. And if you’re charging it, it’s easier, since you simply always charge instead of maintaining your list of exceptions.
replies(1): >>43693859 #
7. pjc50 ◴[] No.43693843[source]
Does the US charge sales tax on B2B transactions? Really? Well no wonder you have problems with domestic manufacturing.
replies(2): >>43694607 #>>43705530 #
8. pjc50 ◴[] No.43693859{3}[source]
UK VAT certainly has a complicated list of exceptions, especially "non-luxury food" (see the Jaffa Cake case https://www.astonshaw.co.uk/jaffa-cake-tax/)
replies(1): >>43694029 #
9. xbmcuser ◴[] No.43693916[source]
Hmm how is it different in the US do you not get back in the sales tax that you paid for your input. Here the middle man pay tax on the buying price and then collects on the sell price. Then has to pay the government minus what they paid as input sale tax. So all increments on the price gets taxed till the end user. But the tax itself is not taxed again.
10. misja111 ◴[] No.43693936[source]
The answer is: rhetoric. It's a fake argument to justify US tariffs. It won't work for people like you and me, but Trump fans will love it.
11. freeone3000 ◴[] No.43694029{4}[source]
But these are per-product, not per-customer. (Businesses, charities, and some customers are exempt from sales tax regardless of what they are buying.)
12. presto8 ◴[] No.43694607{3}[source]
Many B2B transactions are tax-exempt but it's complicated. And gets really complicated once international transactions are considered. And also whether the company has a physical nexus in the place the product is being purchased. All in all, I think it would be simpler if the US adopted VAT. But that seems very unlikely.
replies(1): >>43694915 #
13. 9dev ◴[] No.43694915{4}[source]
Unlikely, given that the current administration seems incapable of understanding what VAT is in the first place…
replies(1): >>43697837 #
14. Yeul ◴[] No.43697837{5}[source]
Last I checked VAT is the same rate regardless if the product is made in China or by pinguins on Antarctica so why anyone in the US gives a damn is beyond me.
15. dboreham ◴[] No.43705147[source]
They're not. Only disingenuous charlatans say they are.
16. patmorgan23 ◴[] No.43705530{3}[source]
There's no federal sales tax so it varies by state.
17. torginus ◴[] No.43708560[source]
Im fairly certain VAT is collected at point of sale in the EU.