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    842 points putzdown | 12 comments | | HN request time: 0.003s | source | bottom
    1. vishnugupta ◴[] No.43692939[source]
    No kidding!

    Beyond the obvious skilled labor there’s supply chain network, maintenance, townships and supporting system around them.

    And all of this needs human labor which is taken from somewhere else. How do you incentivize them? Just throwing money at the problem won’t solve it either. Because more often than not it’ll attract charlatans who will promise the sky, take the money and move away.

    replies(2): >>43692959 #>>43693066 #
    2. jmclnx ◴[] No.43692959[source]
    And do not forget NIMBY :)

    Where I live it is close to impossible to even get a Dog House approved and built.

    replies(1): >>43692995 #
    3. vishnugupta ◴[] No.43692995[source]
    Exactly!

    The regulatory apparatus has to be rewired.

    And then what happens when a new administration comes along 4-8 years down the line and decides to abandon some of those initiatives?

    replies(1): >>43693047 #
    4. ChrisMarshallNY ◴[] No.43693047{3}[source]
    > The regulatory apparatus has to be rewired.

    That has its own issues.

    Not sure if it's still the case, but the Yangtze River used to be one of the most polluted water bodies on earth.

    replies(2): >>43693630 #>>43693787 #
    5. rkozik1989 ◴[] No.43693066[source]
    Americans have a very 1980s idea of manufacturing (and China in general) in that there aren't actually that many humans being used in Chinese factories let alone the American ones some of them want to build here. There's even a concept of, "Dark Factories" in China which are 100% automated factories that operate in the dark. The only jobs that will come from bringing manufacturing back to the states will be in automation, robotics, AI, and roles to support those things.
    replies(4): >>43693117 #>>43693152 #>>43693307 #>>43693379 #
    6. mikevm ◴[] No.43693117[source]
    Well, even a better argument to bring those factories to the US. Why not develop the know-how on manufacturing and improve automation in the US rather have China lead there.
    replies(1): >>43698619 #
    7. FirmwareBurner ◴[] No.43693152[source]
    >The only jobs that will come from bringing manufacturing back to the states will be in automation, robotics, AI, and roles to support those things.

    You're saying it like it's a bad thing.

    Wouldn't it be better we have automation in the west, instead of sweat shops in the east?

    8. bavell ◴[] No.43693307[source]
    A business I work with has a factory in China that produces their devices. They absolutely do most of the assembly manually, as many of their sister factories do.

    Robotics automation is a tradeoff to gain efficiency at the expense of flexibility, with a large upfront cost.

    9. kjkjadksj ◴[] No.43693379[source]
    Given the all the minimum wage staffing at most distribution centers these days despite all this off the shelf robotics technology seemingly available on order and already proven, makes me thing the american worker is cheaper than we might suspect compared to building out these dark amazon warehouses.
    10. franktankbank ◴[] No.43693630{4}[source]
    St. Paul drinking water has suffered under 3m mismanagement.
    11. bluGill ◴[] No.43693787{4}[source]
    We can go too far into deregulation, but we are currently too far in regulation. Push for the correct middle ground.

    I'm not sure exactly what the correct middle ground looks like. I do know that there are signs of a good system.

    There can be no bribes in the system. All permits must have a clearly defined fee that is small and clearly covers the inspectors salary and no more. The vast majority of cases when you want to build it should be 30 minutes from applying for the permit to it being granted. The rules are clearly written up and so it isn't hard to look up the law and write up a permit that cannot be refused.

    There are only rarely hearings. You have the right to do what you want on your property. If your neighbor doesn't like it for the most part they should have bought your property so you couldn't. You don't however have the right to let pollution escape your property - pollution isn't just things like chemicals, but also noise. In rural areas, or around airports we also give you rights to sun, wind, and airspace - in cities though you don't get to demand your garden isn't shaded. You don't get to tell someone what color to paint to use. You don't get to force any amount of parking (either minimum of maximum). You can't enforce building space (square foot, height). You don't get to tell someone not to run a business. You do get to require fire code such that any fire will not spread to your building, and if you want fire protection (which if you don't have you need to ensure smoke from an accidental fire won't affect the neighbors) the fire department can demand some additional features.

    There is probably a lot more, and the above isn't quite correct either, but it at least gives a place to state the debate from.

    12. bluGill ◴[] No.43698619{3}[source]
    Because automation is expensive. It pays off in volume. A skilled human can often build a single widget faster than an engineer can write the automation for the robots (because a skilled human will see parts that don't fit and "file to fit" while the robot demands more effort to double check all that). When you only need 10, the program is faster to write, but you still need to pay for the robots and they are expensive (often $million each, while the human is only a few thousand for his time)

    Of course there are a lot variables in the above. As time goes one automation gets better. You can buy cheap robots for some common operations, and a good engineer with good CAD can run various automated analysis to ensure fit and then export to the robot and build even a single part cheaper than the human - amortizing the cost of the robot over thousands of different single parts made this way. However as the widget gets more complex you reach the point where humans are needed. In some cases you just have humans to take the parts off of one machine and put them into the next, but it is still humans. We can automate even that, but often the robot to do that would cost more than a human for 10 years.