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1114 points namuorg | 5 comments | 11 Apr 25 20:19 UTC | HN request time: 1.005s | source
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abdj8 ◴[14 Apr 25 05:08 UTC] No.43678249[source]▶
Layoffs are a difficult thing for employees and their managers. I have seen people (one was a VP of Engineering) escorted out of the building, sent in a cab to home along with a security guard (this was in India), not allowed access to computer or talk with other employees. But, recently have had a very different experience. The current company I work for announced 30% layoffs. The list was made public within one hour of announcement. The CEO detailed the process of selecting people. The severance was very generous (3-6 months pay) along with health and other benefits. The impacted employees were allowed to keep the laptop and any other assets they took from the company. They even paid the same severance to contractors.

After the announcement, the laid off employees were given a few days in the company to allow them to say good byes. I love the CEOs comment on this ' I trusted them yesterday, I trust them today'. This was by far the kindest way of laying off employees imo. People were treated with dignity and respect.

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apexalpha ◴[14 Apr 25 06:20 UTC] No.43678562[source]▶
Weird, as someone from Europe I've never experience anything else.

Layoffs here are always done in conjunction with the unions. People are moved to different jobs, helped with training etc...

Only in very critical jobs they'd walk you out immediately but then you still get the pay.

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Scandiravian ◴[14 Apr 25 07:42 UTC] No.43678984[source]▶
Having experienced layoffs in both US and EU companies, the difference is massive. In my experience there is very little respect for "the human" being laid off in US companies

People literally would just disappear day to day. I've had several instances where I only found out a colleague had been fired because I tried to write them on Slack only to find that their account had been deactivated

Personally I felt constantly worried working in such an environment and I don't want to work for another US company again if I can help it

There are of course bad cases in the EU, but in my experience it's way less common than in the US

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apwell23 ◴[14 Apr 25 08:48 UTC] No.43679327[source]▶
> In my experience there is very little respect for "the human" being laid off in US companies

its much easier to find another job in US because of this though.

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oblio ◴[14 Apr 25 09:22 UTC] No.43679532[source]▶
Is it, really? Aren't US tech interview notoriously difficult? Many rounds of interviews, background checks, etc.?

Most purely European companies don't do that. Actually, unfortunately, some of them do, because of American influence. But for sure they didn't use to.

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1. constantcrying ◴[15 Apr 25 13:17 UTC] No.43692240[source]▶
Of course. Companies who fire more also hire more.

European companies have very little staff turnover, so new jobs are fewer. Another aspect is that salaries are very even across much of the industry, as it is often negotiated by unions and unless you are also switching roles (e.g. into management) salaries at different companies will be very similar. That is why working for the same company for a long time is much more common in Europe.

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2. disgruntledphd2 ◴[16 Apr 25 12:46 UTC] No.43704775[source]▶
> Another aspect is that salaries are very even across much of the industry, as it is often negotiated by unions

Can you specify what country you're drawing these facts from? Europe does not have standard employment law, and I definitely haven't experienced salaries being set by unions or being common across the industry.

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3. constantcrying ◴[16 Apr 25 13:34 UTC] No.43705347[source]▶
Germany in this case. The high tax rates at progressive rates mean that salary increases mean that income after taxes is quite flat.

There are also union negotiated rates for pay across much of the industry. Even if you switch employer your pay might remain exactly the same, unless you also get promoted and into a higher level or a different industry. "Flächentarifvertrag" it is called.

Obviously this drastically disincentivizes hoping employers.

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4. disgruntledphd2 ◴[17 Apr 25 10:13 UTC] No.43714877{3}[source]▶
> Germany in this case. The high tax rates at progressive rates mean that salary increases mean that income after taxes is quite flat.

OK, good to know. I definitely haven't experienced flat income after taxes post salary bump, even though I pay 52% marginal on my income (in Ireland).

> Obviously this drastically disincentivizes hoping employers.

I can totally see that. Is it really that common in tech jobs though? I'd have expected this to be much more common in larger, older companies (like the automotive industry).

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5. constantcrying ◴[17 Apr 25 12:25 UTC] No.43715778{4}[source]▶
>I can totally see that. Is it really that common in tech jobs

What is a "tech job"? Wouldn't a job where you are designing the electrical/mechanical/software parts of a car be a "tech job"?

Of course this is much more common in older, well established industries. But that is where most of the "tech jobs" are. Germany, especially labor laws, are hostile to start-ups so it is natural that people get employed at these older companies with union negotiated salaries.