I’m pretty sure Facebook just makes up a random number and stores it?
I’m pretty sure Facebook just makes up a random number and stores it?
However, if your random login code is easily typable then it's usually drawn from a small enough keyspace that any such code is trivially brute-forceable. Like if it's decimal digits you need more than ten.
So in practice people just trust that you are on good terms with your email provider and anyone else with access to your email, and use other mechanisms to limit access to these codes from insiders.
I thought anything carried over SSL doesn't have a _significant_ MITM risk.
TOTP devices can be powered offline, which makes it extra secure, as you don't transfer any data around, possibility of leaking it is extremely low.
Random numbers could only work in online flow, where server sends you a one-time code using a secure communication method, such as a trusted phone number or email address.
For text message codes though, there’s plenty of attacks. In authoritarian regimes, government can monitor your text messages directly – I think some protestors in Belarus have lost their Telegram accounts due to this. There’s also the SIM swapping attack, where an attacker pretends to be you and ports out your number: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIM_swap_scam
If you store the OTP secret in an HSM, then you can do the same when generating a random number. I'm not aware of anyone actually doing that though (I surely won't have seen even 1% of what's out there, but as a security consultant I get around at least a little bit)
> you could still store an expiration time, and limit the number of attempts to use the code
Storing plain-text passwords is bad because:
1. Users re-use passwords
2. An attacker can read the access token from the database (as with SQL injection) or capture it in transit (as on insecure connections) and log in directly (if that is still useful when having, e.g., SQL-injection-based database access)
I do not understand what threat limiting the number of attempts protects against. Even if you have that limit implemented on a hardware level, the attacker either knows the right code or can crack the hash if it's a hash of just a few digits. With something like PAKE you can protect against capturing in transit but on secure channels (e.g., if you already use TLS) that's typically overkill
(Of course, you absolutely need to have rate limiting on OTPs, but that is not to protect against the correct code being read straight from disk by the attacker; it's to protect from guessing the digits, a surprisingly common flaw)
> you're probably sending it to the user insecurely anyway (via email or text message)
(I kind of want to remark about this assumed insecurity: the user needs to be targeted for these to not be adequate. Attackers very rarely go after people to the point where they first compromise an email inbox and then look for your specific service, or drive up to the person with cell tower spoofing equipment. It surely happens in red teaming exercises, spy scenarios, if you have a stalker, and probably more, but it's not the common case. Anyway...)
I don't see how rate limiting and expiration helps against sending it via moderately-secure media either. This is necessarily plain text for random codes because the user would otherwise need a decryption key and then you're basically back at the TOTP scenario makes a difference for at-rest storage security. So with them being plain text, if someone is intercepting your SMSes or sitting in your inbox, they'll either manually trigger the code sending or wait for the legitimate user to do this and then log in. Similar to the previous bit: sure, the security of the transport method is relevant, but not for the security of token storage on the server