←back to thread

656 points mooreds | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source
Show context
cj ◴[] No.43675640[source]
As our 30 person startup has grown, I made a conscious decision to stop pitching stock options as a primary component of compensation.

Which means the job offer still includes stock options, but during the job offer call we don’t talk up the future value of the stock options. We don’t create any expectation that the options will be worth anything.

Upside from a founder perspective is we end up giving away less equity than we otherwise might. Downside from a founder perspective is you need up increase cash compensation to close the gap in some cases, where you might otherwise talk up the value of options.

Main upside for the employee is they don’t need to worry too much about stock options intricacies because they don’t view them as a primary aspect of their compensation.

In my experience, almost everyone prefers cash over startup stock options. And from an employee perspective, it’s almost always the right decision to place very little value ($0) on the stock option component of your offer. The vast majority of cases stock options end up worthless.

replies(19): >>43675676 #>>43675759 #>>43675967 #>>43676111 #>>43676216 #>>43676383 #>>43676450 #>>43676463 #>>43676503 #>>43676526 #>>43676834 #>>43676885 #>>43676986 #>>43677139 #>>43677589 #>>43678377 #>>43679184 #>>43680072 #>>43684272 #
__turbobrew__ ◴[] No.43675759[source]
Even if the company has a successful exit lots of times the founders have different stock class than employees which allows them to cook the books in creative ways where employee stocks are devalued without affecting founder stocks.

I personally went through a successful exit of a company where I was one of the early engineers and was privy to orchestrating the sale (working with potential buyers and consultants) and saw this happen.

I now am granted stocks which are traded on the NYSE so nobody can cook the books without commiting securities fraud.

replies(7): >>43675832 #>>43676272 #>>43676802 #>>43676851 #>>43677057 #>>43678735 #>>43680644 #
carimura ◴[] No.43675832[source]
"Cooking the books" could mean many things but most people would interpret this as fraud. There are many exit scenarios that aren't fraud but rather stacks of preferential stock that get paid before common, who usually get paid last.

What happened in your exit scenario?

replies(5): >>43675899 #>>43676096 #>>43676425 #>>43676491 #>>43679599 #
matt-p ◴[] No.43676491[source]
There's also just the case that a buyer is happy buying say 88% of the company and having 12% (usually non-voting) shares lie with employees/former employees. Stock options are only really, truly worth anything if they IPO.
replies(3): >>43676609 #>>43677600 #>>43677963 #
rsanek ◴[] No.43677600[source]
IPO is not the only way for employees to access liquidity
replies(1): >>43679817 #
Der_Einzige ◴[] No.43679817[source]
It sure fucking seems like it is! Have you tried to buy early stock in startups? You have to have 10K minimum in most cases.

I’d have bought huggingface, openAI, anthropic, unsloth, and many others stock right at this moment if I could get in for less than 10K.

Prove me wrong internet. I’m ready to buy in these companies this minute.

replies(4): >>43680247 #>>43680336 #>>43680547 #>>43680681 #
1. coderjames ◴[] No.43680547{4}[source]
An outside individual purchasing shares is not the same as employees accessing liquidity.

As one example, SpaceX is privately held but routinely does funding rounds with large investors so employees can sell shares and access liquidity[1][2]. A $10,000 minimum purchase amount is trivial for those investors.

[1] https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/elon-musks-spacex-raises-...

[2] https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/spacex-fu...