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320 points IroncladDev | 3 comments | | HN request time: 0.736s | source
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rollcat ◴[] No.43670593[source]
I don't understand the obsession with 1980s terminals. They're even less powerful than the contemporary 8-bit home computers. It's perfectly OK to be a retro enthusiast, it's another thing to claim that this is the peak tech to power our modern CLIs, or a solid foundation for portable UIs.

From the docs:

    Stop thinking in standard CSS units like px, em, rem, %
    Start thinking in Character Cells for spacing, sizing, and positioning
A VT102 already has a character grid, but it needs a serial protocol to allow applications on the mainframe to talk to it. You can loop around this and use the raw mode to address individual cells.

The web browser has an insanely powerful typographic and layout engine. Now we're looping back into character cells. Something went wrong here, at least once.

That said, I like the aesthetic and the default color palette. It's quirky, but it has its places.

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godelski ◴[] No.43671003[source]
The obsession is because it is still the best. For all its faults, I'm still terminally terminal. The beauty of it is in the utility and how it becomes so natural. It's a language you learn that gives you so much freedom you cannot find anywhere else. I've tried many IDEs but I'll always come back to vim. It might have taken time to learn but this is true for anything else. I didn't learn a tool, I learned a language. I didn't learn to run, I learned how to move my legs. With that I could teach myself, I can walk, I can run, I can jump, I can dance, I can be anything I want to be. In VSCode I can walk, hell I might even be able to run, but there is no dance, there is no "me".

That's the beauty of the terminal. It's not a one size tool for all. There is no product that can be made for everyone. Instead it's an environment for you to craft and live in. Everyone's dotfiles are as unique as they themselves are. That's the point. Because when you can't build something for everybody you give them the means to craft their own worlds. The computer didn't become so great because the chips, it was the ability to write software and build the things you need. The smartphone didn't take off because it had a big screen, it did because the app. Because you could create. Because your phone is yours and no other phone is like it.

But I haven't found a browser that lets me be me. That let's me dance around the web and jump and be free. And I fear we lost sight of this thing as it became so natural, that the phone and computer are turning into things that be instead of a reflection of me

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freddie_mercury ◴[] No.43672097[source]
If it is still the best, what's the superior terminal equivalent for Photoshop, Premiere, Audacity, and Figma?

Not everyone's work life revolves around text just because yours does.

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tomxor ◴[] No.43672946[source]
> Not everyone's work life revolves around GUIs just because yours does.

FTFY

They both have their place, pros and cons, that fit different purposes differently. The mistake is in trying to assign superlatives.

Two things can be true at the same time, TUIs are superior to GUIs, and GUIs are superior to TUIs, but in different contexts.

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rollcat ◴[] No.43673423[source]
> Two things can be true at the same time, TUIs are superior to GUIs, and GUIs are superior to TUIs.

TUIs are GUIs - in a trench coat. A TUI program must still process input events, draw widgets, manage state & focus, etc - all the things a GUI must do. What OTOH it can't do, is even the most basic stuff, like system clipboard or displaying pictures. You have to use side channels to get that, and once you do, you throw away the TUI's one single advantage - SSH.

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1. godelski ◴[] No.43674778[source]
My terminal can display pictures and use the clipboard. Most of them can in fact. You might be limited in pictures on some but neither do we live in the 90's anymore. I routinely login to remote machines and view the pictures I have stored on them through my terminal
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2. rollcat ◴[] No.43676286[source]
> My terminal can [...] use the clipboard.

Yes, but the TUI application running in it can't - unless using non-portable side channels such as pbcopy or xclip. Copying text is limited to what's visible on your screen (and have fun if it's drawn inside a widget). When pasting, you're dumping the text as if it was typed in. Also, have fun with Ctrl-C / Ctrl-V.

> You might be limited in pictures [...]

That's right, sixels are indeed 1980s technology, seems like VT200 can do that.

But you know what I mean. It can't do audio, video, HDR pictures, precise mouse motion, accessibility, or even recognise shift+alt (ran out of bits in ASCII). It's a serial link, and using a side channel is just cheating.

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3. godelski ◴[] No.43676584[source]
Sure, I'm not going to use my terminal to watch HD movies in. Nor am I going to use it to browse the web. But we're being a bit obtuse here in thinking the terminal is going to do everything. There is no single tool that solves all problems. Not even the computer, as general as it is. That's okay.

Being terminally terminal doesn't mean I only use the terminal and go headless on all my machines. It is my main interface with my computers but I'm writing to you from Firefox. Nor am I going to play steam games in it. But most of the time I'm on my computer I'm not playing games or watching movies. Even with web browsing 99% of what I'm doing I don't actually need these things.

I'd love to have a web that is much more minimal. We don't need to go to walls of text like the 80's, nor even as stripped as HN (which is very lightweight), but there is a nice elegance to more minimal pages (more than just aesthetics) and the zippy experience is almost universally appreciated.

And again, a lot has changed from the 80's and no, a VT200 cannot create the images I see on my machine. I'm not looking at pixelated junk. When I'm running chafa I'm getting something quite similar to what I'm seeing if I open the picture through my file manager. I'm sure if I zoomed in I could tell the difference but that's not my usual workload.