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WebTUI – A CSS Library That Brings the Beauty of Terminal UIs to the Browser

(webtui.ironclad.sh)
320 points IroncladDev | 2 comments | 12 Apr 25 22:02 UTC | HN request time: 0.413s | source
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rollcat ◴[13 Apr 25 06:39 UTC] No.43670593[source]▶
I don't understand the obsession with 1980s terminals. They're even less powerful than the contemporary 8-bit home computers. It's perfectly OK to be a retro enthusiast, it's another thing to claim that this is the peak tech to power our modern CLIs, or a solid foundation for portable UIs.

From the docs:

    Stop thinking in standard CSS units like px, em, rem, %
    Start thinking in Character Cells for spacing, sizing, and positioning
A VT102 already has a character grid, but it needs a serial protocol to allow applications on the mainframe to talk to it. You can loop around this and use the raw mode to address individual cells.

The web browser has an insanely powerful typographic and layout engine. Now we're looping back into character cells. Something went wrong here, at least once.

That said, I like the aesthetic and the default color palette. It's quirky, but it has its places.

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godelski ◴[13 Apr 25 08:08 UTC] No.43671003[source]▶
The obsession is because it is still the best. For all its faults, I'm still terminally terminal. The beauty of it is in the utility and how it becomes so natural. It's a language you learn that gives you so much freedom you cannot find anywhere else. I've tried many IDEs but I'll always come back to vim. It might have taken time to learn but this is true for anything else. I didn't learn a tool, I learned a language. I didn't learn to run, I learned how to move my legs. With that I could teach myself, I can walk, I can run, I can jump, I can dance, I can be anything I want to be. In VSCode I can walk, hell I might even be able to run, but there is no dance, there is no "me".

That's the beauty of the terminal. It's not a one size tool for all. There is no product that can be made for everyone. Instead it's an environment for you to craft and live in. Everyone's dotfiles are as unique as they themselves are. That's the point. Because when you can't build something for everybody you give them the means to craft their own worlds. The computer didn't become so great because the chips, it was the ability to write software and build the things you need. The smartphone didn't take off because it had a big screen, it did because the app. Because you could create. Because your phone is yours and no other phone is like it.

But I haven't found a browser that lets me be me. That let's me dance around the web and jump and be free. And I fear we lost sight of this thing as it became so natural, that the phone and computer are turning into things that be instead of a reflection of me

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rollcat ◴[13 Apr 25 08:58 UTC] No.43671236[source]▶
> I've tried many IDEs but I'll always come back to vim.

Vim and Emacs both have GUIs. As an Emacs user, I subjectively find the GUI superior - I can e.g. rebind Cmd-S to "save", and that's a reason enough.

> It's a language you learn [...]

You mean the serial lines and ANSI escape codes and termcap? I would say it's more like pidgin with a dozen obscure dialects, and a body language on top. Try writing a portable TUI application from scratch, without touching curses or termbox. <https://viewsourcecode.org/snaptoken/kilo/>

Or do you mean, how to drive a TUI application from the keyboard? Here's the painful truth: you can't quit a TUI application without learning it. In vi, it's "Esc-q!-Enter", in Emacs it's "C-x C-c", in screen it's "C-a C-\", in tmux it's "C-a C-d", and so on. Maybe pressing "q" or F10 or C-d will work, but good luck guessing. This is just to quit, and ironically - it's only the start.

By contrast, on macOS it's Cmd-Q; on Windows, it's Alt-F4; and so on. Innovation happens on stable foundations, not by pulling rugs.

> It's not a one size tool for all. There is no product that can be made for everyone. [...] Everyone's dotfiles are as unique as they themselves are.

You know non-TUI applications are also customisable? I have Hammerspoon scripts, a dozen custom keybindings in macOS, .xsession+.Xdefaults+.Xresources, .gitconfig (I use git via Emacs+Magit), various .config/*'s (for e.g. sway), .emacs (bankrupted several times), and so on - none of these are TUI applications.

Or do you mean the command line? I believe we can build a better REPL than a terminal emulator. Emacs is a decent PoC, you can also have a look at Swift Playgrounds. Maybe we can build a generic non-terminal REPL where Ctrl-C means "copy", and Ctrl-V means "paste", that would be a great start.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy if you're happy, I just don't understand the collective obsession. These tools exist, which is great, but we deserve better.

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dullcrisp ◴[13 Apr 25 09:28 UTC] No.43671405[source]▶
Hmm I just use :w<cr> to save in my graphical editors too. It’s easier to type.
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__float ◴[13 Apr 25 15:11 UTC] No.43673358[source]▶
No, it's objectively more difficult to type [on a qwerty keyboard].

cmd-s is a single keypress and can be done with a single hand.

shift-; w cr is two more and involves a back and forth over the entire keyboard.

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1. dullcrisp ◴[13 Apr 25 16:50 UTC] No.43674105[source]▶
I use two hands to type, but if I only had use of one I’d probably use a different key sequence, or more likely a different input method.
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2. godelski ◴[13 Apr 25 20:02 UTC] No.43675426[source]▶
To support this claim I'd like to give a common example in vim. Everyone hates `esc`, right? Well I use `<C-[>` instead. Yeah, that's control plus left bracket. 2 keys! But this is a hell of a lot easier that lifting my hand from the keyboard to reach to the top left corner. I just drop my left pinky slightly and move my right ring finger slightly. Both actions are quite normal in how I just type and my wrists never lift. Using two hands is what makes it easy. I neither type with a single finger, I use every one of them. :w<CR> is not hard because :w might as well be one key (plus I'm always hitting : so the action "burns in" as any constant motion does), w is just a normal key requiring very little movement from my rest state, same as pressing enter (pinky).

I'll give the parent that this is slightly harder than <C-s> but they got the right conclusion for the wrong reasons. But if that trivial extra effort is what's required for what I can do in vim, I'll gladly make that trade. I love my panes, buffers, windows, completion (see :h ins-completion), my visual mode, my search, my replace (way more powerful than many think), my tags that allow me to walk through the program, and how I can effortlessly move my cursor around the screen and around the document. It takes far less effort to move my cursor to where I want than it is to lift my hand and grab the mouse. I love that I can open all files in my project while my computer doesn't even blink, and I can do some refactors of all my code with a single line. No IDE has ever come close to giving me these abilities and I haven't even mentioned the half of it.