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1210 points jbegley | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0.246s | source
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botanical ◴[] No.43661192[source]
If Apartheid South Africa could last just a little bit longer, they would still be an apartheid state like Israel is today.

Western media is just as complicit in this genocide as the fascists in charge of the Israeli government. And media are self-censoring which is reprehensible.

The idea of Hamas wouldn't exist if Gaza (and the West Bank) wasn't occupied by land, air and sea; their land stolen on a daily basis, and Palestinian people treated as subhuman animals.

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YZF ◴[] No.43661541[source]
Palestinian violence predates the 1967 and 1948. Also Gaza wasn't occupied since Israel left it in 2005.

Here's is one example from 1954 when Israel did not control Gaza or the West Bank: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma%27ale_Akrabim_massacre

"The Ma'ale Akrabim massacre, known in English as the Scorpions Pass Massacre, was an attack on an Israeli passenger bus, carried out on 17 March 1954, in the middle of the day. Eleven passengers were shot dead by the attackers who ambushed and boarded the bus. One passenger died 32 years later of his injuries, in a state of paralysis and partial consciousness. Four passengers survived, two of whom had been injured by the gunmen."

Palestinians are largely in the reality they're in due to the violence.

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tradethedelta ◴[] No.43669556[source]
Funny how easy it is to forget that guerilla terrorist actions were introduced to the region by Zionists in the 1940s: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing

Just to name a notable event amongst many.

Many of the masterminds of the early Zionist insurgency later became top Israeli government officials.

Sad to think that Jews and Arabs lived ok side by side. Right wing radicals realized their destiny could only be completed with Palestinian displacement.

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YZF ◴[] No.43669706[source]
Why are we changing the topic? This isn't a "who started" question. The assertion was that Palestinians are murdering Israeli civilians only because of how they're are treated in the West Bank and in Gaza. And that's somehow justified. My example shows this is clearly not true. Palestinians murdered Israeli civilians when the West Bank and Gaza were not even under Israeli control. And well before that as well. The correct order of events here is that Israel is responding to violence and defending its citizens. Not that the Palestinians are peace loving people who are under such dire conditions that it justifies blowing up busses and murdering children. For what it's worth the answer to "who started" is the Arabs unless you consider Jewish presence/immigration/return to their historic homeland as an affront, which ofcourse the Arabs do. If your position is that Jews are not allowed to live in the middle east despite their strong historical connection and their legal claims then ofcourse nothing they can do is right.

The King David hotel was the Headquarters of the British Armed Forces. They were also warned to evacuate and this was a splinter group that executed the attack not really representative of the majority of the Jewish population.

This attack for the most part is relevant in the context of the British occupation of the region. Current day Palestinian narrative essentially puts the Jewish people as British agents who are colonizing Israel. Total nonsense.

You're not wrong that figures like Begin and Shamir eventually became the government though that was decades later. Shamir was one of the first Israeli prime ministers to try and seek a peaceful solution during the Madrid Conference: https://history.state.gov/milestones/1989-1992/madrid-confer... [EDIT: And Begin promised to give Palestinians autonomy as part of the peace agreement with Egypt]

It's the Palestinians who are creating the Israeli right wing radicals. It's the Palestinians who are creating a situation where the only way Israelis can live in peace is by displacing the Palestinians. It's the Palestinians who are playing a lose-lose game instead of a win-win one. You could see that in 1948 when they attacked Israel. You could see that when Israel left Gaza in 2005. You could see that in the suicide bombing campaign of the early 2000s. And you can see this right now with Hamas in Gaza and the West Bank.

Jews and Arabs lived ok side by side only when the Jews "knew their place" or when the Jews had power. There is no precedent for anything else. The Israeli right wing extremism is more or less a mirror image. They used to be outlawed and have risen as a result of a campaign of violence against Israel. There is no example since 1948 of when Palestinians came and said we are going to stop violence and settle things through negotiation. They've always negotiated out of one side and murdered civilians out of the other. And here we are.

EDIT2: It's worth noting the British prevented Jewish people from immigrating to Palestine which sealed the fate of many to death in WW-II. They also put illegal immigrants in camps and mass deported them back to be killed in Europe. They also hanged and imprisoned quite a few Jewish people during the British Mandate period. They hanged quite a few Arabs as well. That said the majority of the Jewish community did not support violence against the British. It's worth noting the mandate given to the British was essentially to establish a Jewish state in that region (initially including Jordan).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration

https://www.nam.ac.uk/explore/conflict-Palestine

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1. ◴[] No.43669834[source]