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1210 points jbegley | 3 comments | | HN request time: 1.274s | source
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googlryas ◴[] No.43656769[source]
I'd like to see examples of actual posts that were taken down, rather than talk of the quantity, or who filed the reports.
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abeppu ◴[] No.43657074[source]
It sounds like you're using the fact that the posts aren't available for you to view to evaluate as a weakness of the reporting on this suppression campaign, but of course they're not available because of the suppression campaign.

Surely the burden should be on the censors to establish clearly that something is in fact incitement to violence, rather than on external reporters to magically show that content which has been taken down is not incitement?

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bawolff ◴[] No.43658166[source]
Generally i hold the burden to prove wrong-doing is on the party allegging wrong-doing. Otherwise we get in a situation where it can be effectively impossible for the accused to prove their innocence, as it is much more difficult to prove a negative than a positive.
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1. ang_cire ◴[] No.43661605[source]
> it can be effectively impossible for the accused to prove their innocence

Except in this case, the accused are the ones who have all the logs, all the records, all the database entries, etc. They are in fact in possession of the complete and perfect means to prove or disprove these allegations, and their choice not to use this data to defend themselves (i.e. by not showing that the posts were in fact harmful or inciting violence, etc) lends credence to the allegations.

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2. edanm ◴[] No.43662355[source]
First, there are two parties here that could prove something. Meta itself, or the Israeli government.

Second, you write: > [...] their choice not to use this data to defend themselves (i.e. by not showing that the posts were in fact harmful or inciting violence, etc) lends credence to the allegations.

This article is from yesterday. I don't think it's fair to call not responding a "choice", surely you would expect it to take some time to actually respond. I might have missed it in the article, but did they reach out to the Israeli government or to Meta to ask for a response (as is normal journalistic practice)?

Third, it's possible that some of the material is things that cannot be publicized. I have no idea if this is the case (and I personally doubt it's the majority of takedown requests), but if, for example, some of the requests were to remove e.g. images of abused Israeli hostages, bodies, etc, this might be material that they won't release, because the whole idea is to stop spread of such images. Of course, they can still describe the purpose of the various takedown requests.

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3. ang_cire ◴[] No.43668524[source]
> This article is from yesterday.

The accusation that Palestinian voices were suppressed by social media companies has been being made for years. It's not a new revelation.

> or the Israeli government

Israel is the originator of the requests, not the one who is being accused of improperly complying (Meta), so why would they help or respond at all?

> it's possible that some of the material is things that cannot be publicized

Even the kinds of images you describe can be shown censored, in order to show the content being present without revealing sensitive material.