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1210 points jbegley | 14 comments | | HN request time: 1.077s | source | bottom
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aucisson_masque ◴[] No.43656830[source]
I like to think we are in a better place than russia for instance with all its propaganda and jailed journalists, but then i see these kind of article come over and over....

Most of the people in the 'free world' goes on mainstream media, like facebook to get their news. These companies are enticed to 'suck up' to the government because at the end they are business, they need to be in good term with ruling class.

you end up with most media complying with the official story pushed by government and friends, and most people believing that because no one has the time to fact check everything.

One could argue that the difference with russia is that someone can actually look for real information, but even in russia people have access to vpn to bypass the censorship.

Another difference would be that you are allowed to express your opinion, whereas in russia you would be put to jail, that's true but only in a very limited way. Since everyone goes on mainstream media and they enforce the government narrative, you can't speak there. you are merely allowed to speak out in your little corner out of reach to anyone, and even then since most people believe the government propaganda, your arguments won't be heard at all.

The more i think about it, the less difference i see.

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1. mnky9800n ◴[] No.43659133[source]
Russia doesn’t just put people in jail for speaking against the government. They weaponise the generational fear of being disappeared by the government. This is not close to what happens in America where you can post anything anywhere and if Facebook deletes it you can always make your own website about it. If you did this in Russia you go to jail. Even if you say things like “it is sad Ukrainian children die in children’s day in Russia” you go to jail. I don’t think you can compare modern USA with modern Russia in this way. USA does plenty of other things that are bad like jailing so many people for petty crimes without pushing much on speech. USA has its own problems and all these comparisons only hide them.
replies(2): >>43659221 #>>43659301 #
2. spencerflem ◴[] No.43659221[source]
They are now denying visas, and deporting lawful residents, sending them to offshore torture prisons, for social media posts.

For non citizens, regardless of length of time or legality, this is the case right now. For birthright citizens and full citizens it will be the case very soon

replies(2): >>43660401 #>>43664415 #
3. cma ◴[] No.43659301[source]
They are sending people to a concentration camp without any due process.
4. jwr ◴[] No.43660401[source]
> birthright citizens and full citizens

Is there a difference?

replies(2): >>43660873 #>>43661459 #
5. SauciestGNU ◴[] No.43660873{3}[source]
No, I think they meant "naturalized and birthright citizens".
6. spencerflem ◴[] No.43661459{3}[source]
They are intending to unconstitutionally remove birthright. I expect they will start having trouble slightly before third generation+ immigrants.
replies(1): >>43663575 #
7. jwr ◴[] No.43663575{4}[source]
But… they can't remove citizenship retroactively. What I mean is today there are citizens and non-citizens, but there are no classes of citizens. Either you have citizenship or you do not, it doesn't matter how you acquired it.
replies(3): >>43665719 #>>43665746 #>>43665799 #
8. Ray20 ◴[] No.43664415[source]
I think it's disgusting hypocrisy. We're talking about the USA, aren't we? A country that has started many, many wars, a country that massacred innocent Vietnamese, Afghans, Iraqis. Even at this very moment, the US is participating in the killing of honest, decent, innocent Palestinians and Russians. But that's okay, not worth mentioning.

But deporting lawful residents? How dare you, America? This is definitely the beginning of the end.

replies(2): >>43665736 #>>43667643 #
9. ◴[] No.43665719{5}[source]
10. spencerflem ◴[] No.43665736{3}[source]
I hate all that too, the people they're deporting are the ones protesting to stop an ongoing US genocide, it's all connected.
11. spencerflem ◴[] No.43665746{5}[source]
That's their plan though :c

So far a judge has blocked it when he tried the first time

https://www.npr.org/2025/01/23/nx-s1-5270572/birthright-citi...

replies(1): >>43669155 #
12. pgkr ◴[] No.43665799{5}[source]
Here are recent attempts to create a stratified class system among citizens based on how they became citizens: https://www.mediamatters.org/immigration/right-wing-media-ca...
13. BriggyDwiggs42 ◴[] No.43667643{3}[source]
Well yeah we’re bad and getting much worse
14. jwr ◴[] No.43669155{6}[source]
I read this article (and others) and I am still unclear. I thought this whole idiotic crusade applied only to newly born children. It never even crossed my mind that you could revoke citizenship from your citizens. I mean, the principle of non-retroactivity dates back to the Roman Empire.