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189 points docmechanic | 4 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source
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kjkjadksj ◴[] No.43655878[source]
It is funny how at least the press written about this sort of research seems to imply only humans have language and some new evidence might challenge that notion.

Really if you ever own a pet, probably any pet I bet, you find that communication in a way that is arguably a language is pretty low level stuff in the animal kingdom. And it makes sense as it is quite useful for a species to communicate things about the world. You turn your community into a meta organism: rather than continuous appendages and nerve endings you might have a meerkat a couple hundred yards observing for predators for you sharing their own senses on their own body with you through their long distance communication abilities in the form of their vocalizations or body language. Now you can solely be a meerkat and get all this information about the area without having to evolve into some lovecraftian horror with a set of eyes and ears every 100 yards.

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1. nkrisc ◴[] No.43655973[source]
I don't think anyone denies that communication is not unique to humans. It is clearly not. But what is (apparently - as far as we know) unique to humans is language, meaning the capacity to combine concepts in an infinitely recursive manner to represent an infinity of concepts and ideas. On top of that, we also posses the ability to communicate (verbally, through sign, or more recently through writing) those combined concepts in such a way that other humans can then recreate that concept in their own mind.

There's evidence that language first evolved as a capacity for processing the outside world internally - your inner voice, if you will. The ability to synthesize any idea about things you can and can not see or even ever experience. The speaking and communicative part of it may have actually arisen secondarily, as evidenced by the fact that "language" does not have to be spoken - it can be expressed in many different mediums.

Communication and language are not one in the same. Language is a means of communication, but it also so much more than that.

I found the book Why Only Us by Chomsky and Berwick to a be a great introduction to the topic.

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2. kjkjadksj ◴[] No.43658218[source]
You don’t think a meerkat when introduced something novel into their environment relevant to them, would ‘t come up with a concept for representing that idea to their own species? I think they would, absolutely. What we do as humans isn’t unique despite how we insist on thinking that about ourselves. It is why we can study neuroscience using fruit flies.
3. ang_cire ◴[] No.43659420[source]
> the capacity to combine concepts in an infinitely recursive manner to represent an infinity of concepts and ideas. On top of that, we also posses the ability to communicate (verbally, through sign, or more recently through writing) those combined concepts in such a way that other humans can then recreate that concept in their own mind.

We don't know that animals can't. We know that some animals can convey detailed information very extensively, but we don't know the structure of the communication well enough as to claim that it isn't via something equivalent to human language. Crows, for instance, can inform other crows about specific people, or characteristics of people, without those things being present. That would generally require descriptive communication to do, which inherently implies an abstraction. Where's the line between that and human language?

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4. BirAdam ◴[] No.43660054[source]
I was going to mention this as well. Further, I remember reading dolphins being capable of similar feats. I also remember hearing about regional animals dialects.

Any animals capable of providing accurate descriptions of things to one another would have to be using something like language. It would require both some kind symbolic thought and structure of those symbols whether they be auditory, visual, or a combination of the two.

If people want to use “language” for humans alone, okay… but it is quite clear that some animals use a communication system nearly as complex if not equivalent.