←back to thread

The thing about Europe: it's the actual land of the free now

(www.economist.com)
160 points cruzcampo | 1 comments | 11 Apr 25 08:04 UTC | HN request time: 0.81s | source
Show context
snehk ◴[11 Apr 25 08:42 UTC] No.43651672[source]▶
> Yet to many Europeans the idea that free expression is under threat seems odd. Europeans can say almost anything they want, both in theory and in practice.

A journalist in Germany was just sentenced to seven months for posting a meme of a politician where she holds up a sign saying "I hate free speech".

https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/nancy-faeser-afd-...

replies(14): >>43651681 #>>43651723 #>>43651744 #>>43651745 #>>43651760 #>>43651765 #>>43651767 #>>43651769 #>>43651825 #>>43651851 #>>43651872 #>>43652301 #>>43652854 #>>43654946 #
froidpink ◴[11 Apr 25 08:43 UTC] No.43651681[source]▶
source?
replies(6): >>43651705 #>>43651710 #>>43651722 #>>43651742 #>>43651823 #>>43651927 #
graemep ◴[11 Apr 25 08:49 UTC] No.43651742[source]▶
I do not know about that but people have had police raids for calling the head of the german Green Party an idiot: https://www.ft.com/content/27626fa8-3379-4b69-891d-379401675...

The Online Safety Act in the UK has been discussed here before and it is part of a general trend to prevent "harmful" speech including specifically "legal but harmful speech".

replies(1): >>43651877 #
InsideOutSanta ◴[11 Apr 25 09:06 UTC] No.43651877[source]▶
After the man posted the image, Robert Habeck (the politician in question) made a criminal complaint. When the Criminal Police investigated the case, they found additional evidence against the man, which prompted the search. His house was not searched for calling Habeck an idiot, but calling him an idiot triggered the investigation, which triggered the search.
replies(1): >>43651920 #
graemep ◴[11 Apr 25 09:12 UTC] No.43651920[source]▶
The politician in question has filed more than 700 criminal complaints about what people have said about him: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Habeck#Hate_crimes

Also, AFAIK while calling him an idiot might not be the direct reason for the raid, it is a crome in itself, right?

replies(1): >>43652146 #
InsideOutSanta ◴[11 Apr 25 09:47 UTC] No.43652146[source]▶
>The politician in question has filed more than 700 criminal complaints about what people have said about him

I'm not sure why that matters in the context of this discussion. He is free to file as many criminal complaints as he wants, no? Living in a free society means that idiots can do idiotic things like filing 700 criminal complaints.

replies(1): >>43652433 #
graemep ◴[11 Apr 25 10:44 UTC] No.43652433[source]▶
The problem is that merely insulting someone can be a crime at all so he not just being idiotic. Those complaints lead to investigations:

https://www.dw.com/en/germany-greens-habeck-presses-charges-... (scroll down to explanation).

its not the only European country where this is possible, at least in theory: https://www.politico.eu/article/european-countries-where-ins...

replies(1): >>43652595 #
1. InsideOutSanta ◴[11 Apr 25 11:14 UTC] No.43652595[source]▶
>The problem is that merely insulting someone can be a crime at all

I disagree that this is a problem per se. Pretty much all jurisdictions across the world have laws like that. It really depends on how exactly the law is implemented.

In fact, American libel and defamation laws are, in some ways, more problematic than many European ones simply because of how the legal system works. If you are sued in a place with no SLAPP laws, the mere lawsuit can be so expensive that it can have a chilling effect on free speech, even if the defendant ultimately wins the case.

(I do agree that laws singling out politicians are stupid.)