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SamBam ◴[] No.43645351[source]
I'm interested that their conclusion -- that Saturn could only support tiny life forms such as bacteria -- is not dependent in any way on the distance from Titan to the Sun.

Am I wrong in thinking that any life must require a steady input of energy, and that this must come from either solar energy or geothermal energy? Quick Googling says that Titan's core isn't known for sure, but probably isn't very hot.

If Titan's life were dependent of solar energy, wouldn't it's distance from the Sun imply very little energy to go around, and so very unlikely to have large organisms?

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adrian_b ◴[] No.43646385[source]
Solar energy can be captured only by living beings that have reached a relatively high complexity after a long evolution.

In places with so little solar energy, living beings might never develop means for capturing it.

For the appearance of life, a source of internal heat for the planet or satellite is a necessary condition.

As another poster has mentioned, in the big satellites of the giant planets such a source of internal heat exists, because of the tidal forces which cause internal friction.

For the internal heat to be able to provide energy for life forms, there must exist some kind of volcanism that cycles matter between the interior and the exterior of the satellite or planet, so that substances that were in chemical equilibrium at higher temperatures are brought to lower temperatures, where they are no longer in chemical equilibrium, which can provide the energy for the synthesis of complex organic molecules.

(On Earth, the principal source of energy for the bacteria that do not depend on solar energy has its origin in the iron(II) ions from the mantle and lower crust of the Earth, which are brought by volcanism at the surface, where they are no longer in chemical equilibrium with water, so they are oxidized by water to Fe(III) ions, i.e. rust, liberating elemental hydrogen from the water, which can be consumed by bacteria and combined with carbon dioxide into organic substances, without needing any other source of energy. When rocks are recycled by subduction into the mantle, because of the high temperatures the iron ions are reduced again to Fe(II) ions, completing the cycle by consuming a certain amount of internal heat.)

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blacksmith_tb ◴[] No.43646720[source]
Hmm, didn't cyanobacteria / blue-green algae evolve early in Earth's history? I would agree that chemosynthesis seems like a better bet so far away from the sun, though).
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Symmetry ◴[] No.43646766[source]
Relatively early but there was at least 500 million and perhaps over a billion years separating the first life and the first photosynthesis. At least as much time as between us and the Cambrian Explosion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_evolutionary_h...

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1. adrian_b ◴[] No.43652047[source]
There has been a long time from the first photosynthesis until the appearance of cyanobacteria, which can oxidize water.

The first phototrophs have been able to oxidize only easier to oxidize substances, at first sulfur, then iron(II) ions, and eventually also manganese ions. The last of these, the oxidation of manganese ions, has evolved into the oxidation of water, which produces free dioxygen. The immediate ancestors of cyanobacteria had 2 different light capturing systems, presumably because one was specialized for oxidizing sulfur and the other was specialized for oxidizing manganese. After the development of the water-oxidizing capability, the 2 photo-systems have become connected in series in the modern oxygenic phototrophs, to accommodate a wider range in energy levels between that corresponding to the oxidation of the oxygen in water and that corresponding to the reducing of carbon into organic substances (and also to the reducing of nitrogen and sulfur).

Cyanobacteria have appeared only about half time from the appearance of life on Earth until today. They may have appeared only after up to a couple of billion years after the appearance of life.

Moreover, some of the signs that are considered as the earliest evidence for the activity of cyanobacteria are inconclusive, because deposits of oxidized iron can be produced not only by the appearance of free oxygen in the atmosphere, but also by direct oxidation of iron(II) ions by bacteria that are unable to produce free oxygen.

Another interesting thing is that it seems that cyanobacteria have appeared on the continents, not in the ocean, and they have invaded oceans only later.

In fresh water, the ability to oxidize water would have been critical, because fresh water did not contain abundant sulfide, iron(II) and manganese(II) ions, like the ocean, which were good enough for the earlier phototrophs.