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America Is Backsliding Toward Its Most Polluted Era

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150 points pmags | 5 comments | 10 Apr 25 12:48 UTC | HN request time: 0.002s | source
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RajT88 ◴[10 Apr 25 13:12 UTC] No.43643433[source]▶
I've observed this weird cognitive dissonance with outdoorsmen, since I am quite fond of fishing.

They tend to be a pretty hardcore MAGA bunch, but also don't like pollution because it messes up their sport. When you ask them about stuff like this (how can you support someone who pretty openly wants to mess up your pastime?), they get mad or change the subject.

I get it - people are complicated and can care about many things at once. Nobody likes it when someone is seemingly poking at their belief systems. Still - you'd think it'd give them some kind of pause.

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s1artibartfast ◴[10 Apr 25 14:13 UTC] No.43643976[source]▶
As an outdoorsman, fisher, and hunter, I view the other party as at war my hobbies.

California banned the diesel engines being used by the fishing boat I went out on. Without 300k to retrofit, the charter went out of business and everyone lost their jobs.

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triceratops ◴[10 Apr 25 14:50 UTC] No.43644377[source]▶
> I view the other party as at war my hobbies.

And they think you put your hobby above other people's lungs. shrugs

I'm sorry about the charter going out of business. A better bill would've made provisions to help businesses with upgrade costs.

Think of everyone's point of view. Not just "my hobby" and "they're doing stuff to me". If you don't care about others they won't care about you. That's what society is.

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s1artibartfast ◴[10 Apr 25 15:12 UTC] No.43644657[source]▶
Yeah, I guess that is the problem.

I do care about other people, I just dont think that some exhaust discharged into the water from a fishing boat on the ocean is really harming people's lungs.

My understanding is the issue was NOx emissions as they relate to climate, but I think there is a lot more meaningful and low hanging fruit than banning a few dozen vessels.

> If you don't care about others they won't care about you. That's what society is.

Society is others not caring about you, no matter what you do. Society doesn't tailor its treatment to individuals based on their thoughts or actions. They are invisible.

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1. triceratops ◴[10 Apr 25 15:54 UTC] No.43645170[source]▶
> some exhaust discharged into the water from a fishing boat on the ocean

The concern is more about particulate pollution when the boats are in dock.

> I think there is a lot more meaningful and low hanging fruit than banning a few dozen vessels

Quite possibly. I don't know the issue as well as you.

> Society is others not caring about you, no matter what you do

Not sure where you got that idea...

> Society doesn't tailor its treatment to individuals based on their thoughts or actions

What on earth are you talking about?

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2. s1artibartfast ◴[10 Apr 25 18:04 UTC] No.43646531[source]▶
I get that idea because society does not care about extremely localized costs if there is a diffuse benefit, or even a good feeling. You said society is being kind to others and it will be kind to you.

My impression is the exact opposite. Society doesn't care if you're the best person in the world if you're in the way of something it wants.

It is happy to put a freeway through your house to save a few bucks or minutes, even if it ruins your life.

Regulation is an even more attractive way to do this because society doesn't have to pay some low ball eminent domain.

Nobody cares if someone has spent their life building a fishing business and 300K loan on boat, the social consensus is haha, sucks to suck loser.

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3. triceratops ◴[10 Apr 25 18:52 UTC] No.43646996[source]▶
Ah kk I see what you're saying. Western society at least is based on norms like the golden rule, which I was driving at.

I guess there's a ton of overlap between "society" as an abstract idea and "the state" when it comes to regulations.

Opposing environmental regulations by saying "this is bad for my hobby" won't gain much sympathy, golden-rule-wise.

> Nobody cares if someone has spent their life building a fishing business and 300K loan on boat, the social consensus is haha, sucks to suck loser.

Hard to say what happened in this case. But usually business interests tend to win out over environmental concerns.

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4. s1artibartfast ◴[10 Apr 25 22:00 UTC] No.43648447{3}[source]▶
And I'm saying the golden rule is certainly not applied in social politics. 90% of people are happy to ban pollution from a small groups, while exempting themselves and all their own hobbies. The smaller the group, the more punitive the majority is willing to be. Fishermen might not get much sympathy, but prohibition on dog ownership or international vacations is unthinkable.

In my experience, small businesses, farmers, and sole proprietors almost never win out over environmental concerns. Big business gets a pass.

I think hunters and outdoorspeople are often positioned to see the hypocrisy of all this. They see a few tiny fishing boats being banned from California harbors, while massive container ships chug through the bay endlessly full of single use garbage.

They see fishing restrictions while entire municipalities discharge wastewater into the rivers and factory ships dragnet the ocean to sell at Safeway.

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5. triceratops ◴[10 Apr 25 22:51 UTC] No.43648729{4}[source]▶
All fair points. Cheers.