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689 points taubek | 18 comments | | HN request time: 0.001s | source | bottom
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rayiner ◴[] No.43632822[source]
Americans need to get over their view of “Asia” as being about making shoes. When I was working in engineering in the early aughts, we mocked the Chinese as being able only to copy American technology. Today, China is competitive with or ahead of America in key technology areas, including nuclear power, AI, EVs, and batteries.

We need to anticipate a future where China is equal to America on a per capita basis, but four times bigger. Is that a world where “Designed by Apple in California, Made in China” still makes sense? What will be America’s competitive edge in that scenario?

What seems most likely to me in the future is that the US will find itself in the same position the UK is in now. Dominating finance and services won’t mean anything when both the IP and the physical products are being produced somewhere else.

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pjc50 ◴[] No.43633979[source]
> US will find itself in the same position the UK is in now

The thing is .. there's a point here, but it's not at all tied in with physical products. People are obsessed with one side of the ledger while refusing to see the other. Most of the stuff the UK is struggling with (transport, healthcare, energy) are "state capacity" issues. Things where the state is unavoidably involved and having better, more decisive leadership and not getting bogged down in consultations, would make a big difference.

The UK stepped on its own rake because it was obsessed with tiny, already vanished industries like fishing. Fishing is less profitable for the whole UK than Warhammer. It's not actually where we want to be. While real UK manufacture successes (cars, aircraft, satellites, generators, all sorts of high-tech stuff) get completely ignored. Or bogged down in extra export red tape thanks to Brexit.

To improve reality, we have to start from reality, not whatever vision of the past propaganda "news" channels are blathering about.

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myrmidon ◴[] No.43634663[source]
> Fishing is less profitable for the whole UK than Warhammer.

This sounded completely insane to me. I tried to look up numbers and found that Games Workshop brings in > 0.5 billion in revenue (!!), compared to all of UKs fisheries at 1 billion-ish (profit margins are, as you'd expect, pretty favorable for the plastic figurines that they don' even paint for you).

Thanks for this interesting fact.

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AndrewStephens ◴[] No.43636951[source]
> Games Workshop brings in > 0.5 billion in revenue (!!)

I had no idea that Warhammer was such a huge industry - they must sell almost 600 sets a quarter.

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gmueckl ◴[] No.43637344[source]
This is either a joke that flies over my head or there are a few zeroes missing. Which is it?
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1. Symbiote ◴[] No.43637471[source]
It's priced in a similar way to Lego.
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2. stevage ◴[] No.43638273[source]
I don't find Lego especially expensive. And Lego is way more difficult to manufacture, has very exacting functional requirements and extremely good QA.
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3. iamacyborg ◴[] No.43638339[source]
I don’t know a great deal about injection moulding but I’d assume GW kits are more detailed than lego, having seen some sprues.

The stuff they’re putting out these days is really quite good.

4. Symbiote ◴[] No.43638545[source]
I bought a Warhammer set during Covid and was amazed at the detail, compared to the 1990s stuff I had as a kid.

I can't say what's more difficult to manufacture - millions of identical bricks that snap together, or a huge range of different, detailed designs which fit snugly together but don't lock.

Just the first thing on the home page: https://www.warhammer.com/en-GB/shop/Deathlords-Mortarchs-Ma...

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5. stevage ◴[] No.43638592{3}[source]
> millions of identical bricks

Clearly you are not aware of the extraordinary range of Lego pieces.

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6. Symbiote ◴[] No.43638817{4}[source]
Proportionate to the size of each company and the amount of toys they produce, I'll bet there's significantly more variety in Warhammer.

Just from a quick search, within a year Games Workshop offer about 3000 different model kits, each of which will contain ~1-4 unique moulded sprues. There seem to be at least 50 new kits each year, possibly 100, otherwise what's available rotates around the older kits.

Lego have produced about 15,000 different sets since 1950, and a huge number of the parts are shared between sets. (That's the whole point of the toy, no?)

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7. stevage ◴[] No.43638854{5}[source]
Yeah I tried to look up the number of different Lego partszbut it gets hard to define what a Lego part is. And are we counting different colours, different designs printed on them, etc. Somewhere between 5k and 60k.
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8. dmoy ◴[] No.43639103[source]
Lego is pure IP (both from LEGO itself, and then e.g. Disney or whoever is behind the theme of a given set). If you get sets designed in China and made at the same factories that make Lego bricks, they're like 1/3 the cost. If you get sets designed in not-China but obviously ripped off ("Star World" sets that are 1:1 copies of Star Wars legos), also in the same factories, it's like 1/10 the cost.

The manufacturing isn't easy, sure, but it's more or less a solved problem and not at all reflected in the cost.

So when GP says priced like Lego, they just mean that - priced based on something completely different from the cost of materials, manufacturing, etc.

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9. jldl805 ◴[] No.43640347{3}[source]
False. Lego is some of the most precise injection molding in the world. The tolerances are insane and they nail them every time. Compare with offbrand building blocks and you'll feel the difference.

Micromolding is very hard, and Lego is the best at it.

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10. IndrekR ◴[] No.43640758{3}[source]
> If you get sets designed in China and made at the same factories that make Lego bricks, they're like 1/3 the cost.

Lego does not outsource brick making. They tried it out back in 2005 with Flextronics in Hungary and got a painful lesson. Lego runs all their factories themselves now.

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11. pjerem ◴[] No.43641005{6}[source]
Also you have to take in account that Lego frequently stops certain parts and also that they more and more create complex parts and comparatively less "classic" bricks.

Which is an issue because it makes the sets way more difficult to reuse than 30 years ago. Go figure what to build with a random ninjago set except the official model. But that’s another ~~rant~~story.

12. dmoy ◴[] No.43641189{4}[source]
Lego may run the factories, but the factory will run extra and sell the excess off books. Maybe less so nowadays that (1) they can charge a 20-30% premium over US Lego prices in China, and (2) competitor off-brand Lego have caught up in quality

I don't think the official Lego China factory products get sold to the US, only Asia?

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13. dmoy ◴[] No.43641241{4}[source]
10-20 years ago, sure. Nowadays you can get basically the same product from LEGO compatible competitors for way cheaper. Dunno how many modern sets of the variety of competitor stuff you've assembled recently, there's huge variance. Some of it definitely has crap QC. Some of it is really, really good now. My wife put together some knockoff 8000+ piece set the other year and the pieces were basically flawless.
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14. lnsru ◴[] No.43641295{4}[source]
Exactly. I bought 3 or 4 China Lego clones to try and the parts were slightly different in size and in color. Some blocks way too big, so building was not good experience. For original Lego you don’t need sanding paper on the table.
15. eecc ◴[] No.43641326[source]
Yeah, and way much too! I wanted this so bad for my kid but it’s breathtakingly expensive (while still being quite an underwhelming set).

https://www.lego.com/nl-nl/product/lego-education-spike-prim...

16. darkstar_16 ◴[] No.43642445{5}[source]
they own their factories. Contrary to what you're thinking, they actually only have 3-4 factories across the world.
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17. mogrim ◴[] No.43642854{5}[source]
Where I've seen the difference is in the quality of the instructions (which matters) and the packaging (which arguably doesn't). The bricks themselves are, as you say, basically flawless.
18. dmoy ◴[] No.43644856{6}[source]
Right and I'm talking about the one in China (that opened like 10 years ago), selling stuff to people in China (and presumably elsewhere in Asia).

Nowadays it's kinda irrelevant to the greater point anyways, because some of the knock off factories make parts that are just as good. (Some knock off factories push out terrible QC)